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2006/09/17, 12:43 PM
ok so you kno the drill. looking for friendly advise thankss??
x4Barbell Curl8-12
x3DB Curls8-12
x2Concentrate Curls8-12
x4DB Extensions8-12
x3Skull Crushers6-8
x2Tricep Kickbacks8-12
i try to use a lower weight for my biceps and then really contract then in the movement but for my tris i ussuaally stack on a lot of weight. is that right???
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2006/09/17, 03:06 PM
I think you should know the drill by now. I still think you are over training. You are talking about doing 108 reps for bi's and 96 reps for tri's. We have already seen your shoulder routine. I can only imagine your chest, back and leg machine is much of the same. What magazine are you getting these routines from? In one of your posts you said you want to gain mass. You need to eat, eat and eat some more to gain mass. You are young, listen to those that have already responded to you. Lighten up the load, lift heavy and eat, rest and repeat. If you continue to train like this at your age you are going to mess up your tendons and burn out.
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2006/09/17, 07:27 PM
gain muscle mass. and no magazine. im getting different answers im just trying to clear things up
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2006/09/17, 10:13 PM
I do about that many reps.... is that really that bad?
I usually do 3 exercises for bicep and 3 for tricep. Each having 4 sets of 8-12.
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2006/09/18, 01:31 PM
If you are doing that type of volume for bis & tris what are you doing for your larger muscles????
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2006/09/18, 01:41 PM
I keep bicep work to 6 total sets, and triceps to 8. Vary them in any manner I want, but first and foremost the heavy stuff, isolation is normally an afterthought at best. You really cannot change the 'shape' of the muscle anyway, though isolation provides a nice pump, chances are not much growth.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/18, 03:08 PM
so what would you consider the "heavy stuff"? compound movements such as whatt?? i kno concentrate curls are iso but arent Barbell Curls compound???
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2006/09/18, 04:18 PM
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Quoting from ka:
If you are doing that type of volume for bis & tris what are you doing for your larger muscles????
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larger muscles like back???
I usually do 3 exercises each with 4 sets of 8-12
except for legs....legs i do 4 exercises with 3-4 sets of 8-12
Is that ok???
let me break it down
Back - 3 exercises with 4 sets of 8-12
shoulders - 3 exercises with 4 sets of 8-12
biceps - 3/4 exercises with 4 sets of 10-12
triceps - 3 exercises with 4 sets of 10-12
chest - 3 exercises with 4 sets of 10-12
legs - posted above
I have to do this much or else i wont feel it....should i try and do more weight and less reps???
Im 18 if that matters
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2006/09/18, 05:03 PM
Aces - " you have to do this much or you won't feel it"
Then you are not going heavy enough with the correct movements. For example - you potentially do 4 exercises of four sets of 8-12 reps for legs. That is 192 reps. I did 2 exercises last night for legs. A total of 24 reps and my legs can definetly feel it today. I just feel that you are overdoing it and can accomplish a lot more with a lot less. Everyones experiences are different. I can only speak from my own. When I was your age I did what you are doing. I realize now, for me, it was totally wrong.
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2006/09/18, 05:46 PM
Concentration curls are not a compound movement.
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Quoting from xxmisterbugyixx:
so what would you consider the "heavy stuff"? compound movements such as whatt?? i kno concentrate curls are iso but arent Barbell Curls compound???
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2006/09/18, 07:16 PM
i kno. i said that they were isolatioon. but Barbell Curls are compound right. nd what about dumbell curlss
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2006/09/18, 07:18 PM
i kno. i said that they were isolatioon. but Barbell Curls are compound right. nd what about dumbell curlss
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2006/09/18, 07:23 PM
My bad - your grammar/sentence structure is hard to follow.
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2006/09/18, 07:24 PM
Not so sure bicep curls would be considered a compound movement, either.
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I am training for birthdays.
Be here. Live. Love. Hope. Now. Faith. Believe. You. - Keith Urban
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2006/09/18, 10:50 PM
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Quoting from ka:
Aces - " you have to do this much or you won't feel it"
Then you are not going heavy enough with the correct movements. For example - you potentially do 4 exercises of four sets of 8-12 reps for legs. That is 192 reps. I did 2 exercises last night for legs. A total of 24 reps and my legs can definetly feel it today. I just feel that you are overdoing it and can accomplish a lot more with a lot less. Everyones experiences are different. I can only speak from my own. When I was your age I did what you are doing. I realize now, for me, it was totally wrong.
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how many sets/exercises/reps do u do for each body group???
And if i only did like 2 sets like u, would i get the same results? I always thout that u had to push yourself to the max to get better results, and for all my exercises i am going my max weight. I just do more of it. But ya im still fairly new to all this, in fact saturday was my second time doing legs lol. All other body parts i been doing for about 6 months.
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2006/09/18, 10:57 PM
Not 2 sets - two exercises (Squats & Lunges) 8 total sets, 24 total reps. I am glad to see that you started legs. They are a must. Heavy Squats & Deadlifts will make your other body parts grow as well.
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2006/09/19, 02:49 PM
Bicep curls are not a compound movement. However, standing heavy barbell is the heaviest direct movement you can do for the bi's. This is what I am referring to. 4 sets of heavy barbell curls, 2 sets of heavy incline dumbbell curls, all as heavy as you can go.
There is much around and especially so from many powerlifters that you don't need to work arms, doing overall body compound movements will make your arms go.
I say, this may well work for those folks, for those that are prone to gaining muscle easily. But for the average joe that does not have genetics on his side, I say you you need to do some direct arm work if you want to gain any size there. This does not mean overdo it, simply as I stated earlier.
Just like those that are now saying, oh, you don't need to do any ab work to gain abs, just diet and they will be there. I say bull, I have competed in many contests, I would never have had the abs I had if I had not done some direct ab work.
I have competed against guys who look great, but have very little abs. Cut everywhere, but no abs to speak of. Talk to them behind stage, guess what...they did very little ab work if any.
A muscle is a m uscle, don't care where it is, it must be hit in some way. There are always those 'gifted' folks who will get on and say, you don't need to do this or that. Chances are you are not one of them. Don't do any armwork, diet down, see how your arms look after the fat gained is gone.
This stuff permeates these boards in cycles. In 6 months, someone in 'authority' will say, no, you have to hit the bi's and tri's. Folks will slowly pick up on it, and all of a sudden, it will be, dumbbass, you have to work the bi's and tri's.
Been around this game a long time folks.
End of story, find what works for you, and do it. Your recovery threshold is different from your buddies probably. This is the bottom line. Can you recover from what you do? If you leave the gym having to be carried out, chances are good you taxed the CNS, and will not recover adequately.
If you get a monster pump in 3 sets, will 5 sets give you more of a pump? At some point you are no longer working the muscle, you are taxing the CNS. Think about this when you are working out.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/20, 10:15 AM
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Quoting from bb1fit:
"chances are good you taxed the CNS, and will not recover adequately."
If you get a monster pump in 3 sets, will 5 sets give you more of a pump? At some point you are no longer working the muscle, you are taxing the CNS. Think about this when you are working out."
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What is CNS??? For most muscles i do 3-4 exercises, just because if i dont i wont feel it the next day. and what did u mean by taxing the CNS? You also mentiond that when taxing the CNS, u will not recover adequately...How do you know when this is the case. When i realy work the muscle, like in the workout i posted above. I usually feel it for at least 2-3 days. I always thought that if i felt it that long that it was good, because that meant i workd the hell outa my muscle. Am i wrong?
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2006/09/20, 11:41 AM
CNS = Central Nervous System. I will step out of the way and let bb1 answer your other questions.
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2006/09/21, 04:03 PM
noww my supplies varry throughout the week so some movements that are said to help the bis like pull upps i dont have access to. probably 2 days a week i work out at my schools Weight room but the other 2 or 3 workout days i only have an incline bench, a barbell, and dumbbells
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2006/09/21, 04:12 PM
Is there a question in there?
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2006/09/21, 04:15 PM
so u workout 4-5 days???? Lately i been pushing myself more...but when i do my muscles take alot longer to heal... Like 3 days. Im down to 3 days at the gym now, simply because i dont want to go when i still feel pain from another days workout.
Is this right???
and ka can u expand on the CNS logic to workouts plz
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2006/09/21, 04:54 PM
I wish I could, but I am not sure. I was hoping that BB1 would jump back in to explain. I will see what I can find out.
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2006/09/21, 04:57 PM
ya i was hopeing bb1 would come back too :(. Hes very wise lol.]
GO BB1 :D
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2006/09/21, 04:59 PM
When you lift a weight you are causing the nerves to activate to lift that weight. If you over load that you are affecting the CNS which runs the nerves. SO if you are lifting to the point where the CNS is maxed out all the time you can cause problems. IT, the CNS needs time to repair and rest just like the rest of the body.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/09/21, 04:59 PM
An answer should be coming soon - check back later
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2006/09/21, 06:27 PM
But are there any signs to look for when you have gone to far and you are now taxing the CNS ?
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2006/09/21, 08:10 PM
For me I get very tired, sore beyond reg lifting soreness, and my shoulders hurt. It almost is like overtraning symptoms whcih could also be one reason of overtraining.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/09/21, 08:40 PM
Thanks Scott
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2006/09/21, 09:19 PM
what happens when your taxing the CNS???? and LATELY i been only going to the gym for 3 days a week because im still feeling pain from the previous workout. Like today i still feel my shoulders/back, but i last workd those on monday(today being thursday). That 3.5 days to heal. When i did arms/chest last week, it took 3/4 days for it to completely heal. The only thing im doing different is i seem to be pushing myself a little more, but not much... Is this normal??? I want to push myself to the max to achieve max results, but i didnt kno there was a point where u would overwork the muscle.
MY NEW WORKOUT SCHDULE(since 3/4 day pains started)
monday - Shoulders/back BOTH with 3 exercises 4reps of 10-12
thursday - biceps/triceps/chest ALL 3 exercises 4reps of 10-12
saturday - legs(4 exercises 4reps 10-12)/calves(1 exercise 6-8 reps 10-15
Thats what i did that week, and thats my new schdule. Is it ok? By the way i felt pains in my legs from the saturday workout up untill about wednesday. Thursday i stil felt my shoulders/back from my monday workout. I felt my arms/chest from my thursday workout up untill about monday. For some reason my recovery rate as slown down ALOT, and the only thing i can think of is that im pushing myself a littttttle more. Please comment if u think u kno wat the problem is. Thanks
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2006/09/21, 09:21 PM
I want to go more days but ive been told that u must let the muscle heal before u can go again. Or else your just re-ripping the muscle. And i cant go more days because i still feel the pains as posted above.
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2006/09/21, 09:52 PM
The world needs another bi/tri specialization plan like I need a pec tear.
Build a base kid.
I agree with Ron's post on the 19th, but I doubt this kid is at the point where that much isolation is necessary.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/09/21, 10:14 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
The world needs another bi/tri specialization plan like I need a pec tear.
Build a base kid.
I agree with Ron's post on the 19th, but I doubt this kid is at the point where that much isolation is necessary.
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Were u refering to me??? Cuz um ya im the same age as you so dont call me no kid. And why post if your not going to help, or did u help and i missd it? Your post sounded like 100% complete attitude, but maybe thats just me.
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2006/09/21, 10:17 PM
O ya let me refer to this
"Please comment if u think u kno wat the problem is. Thanks"
O and btw quoteing who your refering too often helps
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2006/09/21, 10:24 PM
Thank God!!! I'm not crazy after all. I thought I was the only one that got mixed info.
I try to take advice from the big boys here pretty much (i.e. ron, mutt, BA, wrestler, as well as others.)
Seems like every few months, a new strategy leaks in.
But... how do you know exactly what is "right for you"?
Do you wait for results... which may be 1 - 2 - 3 months away. Or soreness,... or "pump"?
Simply put, what guidelines should be followed to define what is best?
I assume visual results are the best indicator, but what should you look for in the immediate sense? after every workout, or even the next day?
When I was getting the best results back a few years ago, I NEVER got sore. I mean NEVER. I was using creatine, and as I have said before adding 10 lbs every 7-10 days.
But then again, I was doing squats, which I'm doing now. After my first 3 sets of 8, I couldn't bend my knees for 5 days due to the excruciating pain in my thighs. :angry:
Better now, though I still get sore after a squat session.
Anyway, with progressivly adding weight, should I feel sore in any part of my upper body the day after a workout?
Thanks.
:dumbbell:
Thanks :dumbbell:
============
Quoting from bb1fit:
Bicep curls are not a compound movement. However, standing heavy barbell is the heaviest direct movement you can do for the bi's. This is what I am referring to. 4 sets of heavy barbell curls, 2 sets of heavy incline dumbbell curls, all as heavy as you can go.
There is much around and especially so from many powerlifters that you don't need to work arms, doing overall body compound movements will make your arms go.
I say, this may well work for those folks, for those that are prone to gaining muscle easily. But for the average joe that does not have genetics on his side, I say you you need to do some direct arm work if you want to gain any size there. This does not mean overdo it, simply as I stated earlier.
Just like those that are now saying, oh, you don't need to do any ab work to gain abs, just diet and they will be there. I say bull, I have competed in many contests, I would never have had the abs I had if I had not done some direct ab work.
I have competed against guys who look great, but have very little abs. Cut everywhere, but no abs to speak of. Talk to them behind stage, guess what...they did very little ab work if any.
A muscle is a m uscle, don't care where it is, it must be hit in some way. There are always those 'gifted' folks who will get on and say, you don't need to do this or that. Chances are you are not one of them. Don't do any armwork, diet down, see how your arms look after the fat gained is gone.
This stuff permeates these boards in cycles. In 6 months, someone in 'authority' will say, no, you have to hit the bi's and tri's. Folks will slowly pick up on it, and all of a sudden, it will be, dumbbass, you have to work the bi's and tri's.
Been around this game a long time folks.
End of story, find what works for you, and do it. Your recovery threshold is different from your buddies probably. This is the bottom line. Can you recover from what you do? If you leave the gym having to be carried out, chances are good you taxed the CNS, and will not recover adequately.
If you get a monster pump in 3 sets, will 5 sets give you more of a pump? At some point you are no longer working the muscle, you are taxing the CNS. Think about this when you are working out.
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2006/09/21, 10:36 PM
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Quoting from brandon7:
When I was getting the best results back a few years ago, I NEVER got sore. I mean NEVER. I was using creatine, and as I have said before adding 10 lbs every 7-10 days.
Anyway, with progressivly adding weight, should I feel sore in any part of my upper body the day after a workout?
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U DONT FEEL IT THE NEXT DAY??? and ur getting results. O man all this is so confusing lol. I thout if u didnt feel it the next day, that u didnt work it hard enough. But if u got results and didnt feel it. man o man lol. Can someone help us before we go mad! :laugh:
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2006/09/22, 06:46 AM
Nope. Honestly I don't. Only thing I feel the next day is squats. :(
And trust me, I work out hard.
Now let me clarify. I was sore after the first 3 or 4 workouts on upperbody. But after that... nothing. Well, I say nothing. I would feel a little tightness the next day. But no soreness. I had to literally fight the urge to work the same muscles a few hours later. A few times I did in fact. I really think it was the creatine. You know how you do that last rep on bench or curls, the one where it feels as if you're gonna mess yourself from straining so hard and it takes like ten seconds to get it up? And you think there is no possible way you can do anymore?. Well i would somehow do 2 more after that.
Probably something that alot of people here do everyday, but it always made me look forward to my next workout. I just felt proud of myself. :)
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2006/09/22, 07:46 AM
Ok first of all each of us is different. Therefore what works for me most likely will not work for you etc. Secondly being sore after a workout is not a good way to judge a good or a bad workout. Being sore means that those muscles that are sore just are not used to that level of work. I always get sore after a chest or tri work out, but hardly feel a bicep or back workout (lower back I do but that is a different thing).
So if you get sore good if you do not good as well. I know this is confusing but it is very simple really. With any body part stick to the main compound/mass building exercises, then if you have time add in more Iso related movements. Try to keep the actual workout to about a hour or so. Keep the weight heavier (while keeping form as close to perfect), and just freaking lift.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/09/22, 08:32 AM
This should be all you need..
Quoting from bb1fit:
"just get more weight on the bar"
That should help....
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2006/09/22, 11:53 AM
This is not really a 'science', it is more common sense. This is the aspect folks seem to lack in looking for some type of 'edge' noone else has, or just wanting to be told this is the way to do it. Just lift heavy, eat, and rest. If the next time you do the same bodypart you are actually weaker, feel a bit lethargic, etc., chances are good you have not recovered from your last bout. So, a cutback in volume, longer rest periods to allow adequate recovery, etc. should be incorpororated. If in 5-7 days max you have not recovered, you overdid it more than likely.
Again, if you do 3 heavy sets with max intensity, and your arms are pumped and full, will 3 more sets give you more of a pump? I have seen papers that indicate that much of the 'damage' done to a muscle is actually done on the first or second set if you are using heavy enough weight and max intensity.
You can only work a muscle so much....after say 3 sets, or 5, or whatever, at some point the muscle is exhausted, and you are no longer working the muscle, but taxing the central nervous system. You will more than likely be a bit shaky when you leave the gym, feel tired and lethargic, blood sugars plummet, etc.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/22, 03:43 PM
i feel pain the next dayy ussually only in a few muscles. specifically my chest, triceps, glutes, and lower back. oh and my trapps ussually feel sumthing the next day too.
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2006/09/22, 04:10 PM
So what doesn't hurt???Your ankles and your wrists???
Sorry...had to throw that in there...it's friday...I think I'm aloud on fridays.....isn't that the new rule mutt??
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2006/09/22, 04:14 PM
Um ok.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/09/23, 01:50 AM
Soreness is not a sign of a good workout. Means squat. I haven't been sore in years, and I can guarantee you I have some good workouts.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2007/08/05, 02:28 PM
does anyone knwo how i can get bigger arms ? ( dumbels and pushups dont seem to work ):(
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