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2008/07/22, 11:15 AM
There is something to 'visual reduction', but it is in a different context. This does not come from direct work of an area, this comes from as your bodyfat reduces, it becomes more 'visual' in areas. For example, hen you are 20% bf for instance and lose as much as 3%, chances are good you will see nothing and think you are doing nothing by visual.
But, if you are say 7%, and lose just 1%, you visually see a large change, and this may well be in the midsection as this is a 'last holdout' so to speak for many men(and women).
Conversely, this visual effect grows dramatically as you lose more bodyfat. For instance, when contest training. I get to 6%, then lose just 1/2% bf, and voila', it is a HUGE visual spot reduction.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2008/07/22, 02:54 PM
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Quoting from Intruder:
They say you cant spot reduce, but when it comes to the mid section (core muscles) I have to dissagree. The body weigh scale may not show the loss, but you will see the results in the mirror. This is what I term as "visual spot reduction" to the mid section. Just need to get started on an aggressive weight resistance mid section training program and you will find out for yourself.
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And how is this spot reduction? Explain to me how you determined that people that see results in a mirror are experiancing "visual spot reduction" and not just losing bodyfat?
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2008/07/22, 03:04 PM
I agree with everything BB1Fit and Asimmer posted above, except the comment about ab training leading to "blockiness". The abdominals actually have very little potential for hypertrophy, just because of how they are wrapped.
Also, I am yet to see a GOOD study that showed that long term (anything longer than 72 hours) fat loss from the region doing work.
I do think there is something to certain hormones causing bodyfat to be stored in different places, but only if your hormones are out of whack to begin with.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2008/07/22, 04:12 PM
spot reduction just doesn't magically become possible
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2008/07/22, 05:46 PM
What intruder might be talking about is the initial period after you begin training abs(or any other muscle group for that matter) on a routine basis. I noticed that after I had just started getting serious about my ab work that my belly did look a little flatter. This could be because those muscles had received for the first time some good direct stimulation, and started to "firm-up"(sorry for the plain English there). Thats my guess anyway,..
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2008/07/22, 10:50 AM
There have been some new studies that show that the body actually uses fat from the area being worked...but again, without a clean diet you can work your midsection 24/7 and not get results. Plus, the total calorie burn from heavy leg work and the core stabilization required during heavy leg work will probably go farther towards shaping your midsection than just heavy midsection training.
Also - heavy midsection training can lead to blockines if you aren't careful about pulling it all in before working it and not going to heavy on oblique work.
Some of the best physiques I have seen, you ask them how they train their abs and they will tell you they never directly train them or veryseldom.
EVERY exercise is (or should be) core recruitment and core stabilization. Deadlifts, squats, rows, presses - all shuld make you use and train your abs.
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Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they\'re yours.
Richard Bach
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2008/07/22, 01:53 AM
They say you cant spot reduce, but when it comes to the mid section (core muscles) I have to dissagree. The body weigh scale may not show the loss, but you will see the results in the mirror. This is what I term as "visual spot reduction" to the mid section. Just need to get started on an aggressive weight resistance mid section training program and you will find out for yourself.
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"Get everthing you want--just make a little change now"
"The thing you have to realize is that you have to work for it,"
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2008/07/24, 01:56 PM
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Quoting from returnofplex:
What intruder might be talking about is the initial period after you begin training abs(or any other muscle group for that matter) on a routine basis. I noticed that after I had just started getting serious about my ab work that my belly did look a little flatter. This could be because those muscles had received for the first time some good direct stimulation, and started to "firm-up"(sorry for the plain English there). Thats my guess anyway,..
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Your guess is wrong. More than likely you just lost fat all over. Other explanations were an improvement in posture (reversal of anterior pelvic tilt has this effect and can be achieved through stronger abdominals), muscle pump, and imagination.
I don't intend to be mean here, but stop it. You are "guessing" about something that people study (people like me, eventually) and that many people on this site and others have worked very hard to explain to people that already believe this. This industry doesn't need more people perpetuating "spot reduction" myths. It's bad enough when I see infomercial after infomercial showing "ab exercises" to "firm and tone your abdominals".
It's bad enough without people coming here going "I think science is wrong". If you want to discuss something then fine, that is what this site is for. However, don't perpetuate these myths.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2008/07/24, 05:22 PM
Well, gee whiz guess I got served! Anyway I probably should have been more specific in that last post. I honestly don't believe in spot reduction as a whole, and wasn't intending to continue the myth. When I wrote "firm-up", it wasn't the best choice of words to use. What I trying to imply was the initial "improvement"(notice the quotations) that people see when they first begin strength training. You know, the visual improvements that come usually after the first couple of weeks. Or if you haven't been in the gym for a few months, and you look at yourself in the mirror the night of, or day after your first or second work out back in the gym. The scale might not budge, but you still look better. I didn't mean to imply that this was actually spot reduction. I try to speak in the most general terms possible, because not all of us have had the opportunity for a highly specialized education, and it bites me in the butt some times. So, yes wrestler you are right, and I apologize to anyone who took that comment to mean that spot reduction was in fact a reality. Perhaps I should have said "spot improvement", so it didn't sound like you could actually choose where the fat actually comes off of.
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Quoting from wrestler125:
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2008/07/24, 10:26 PM
Don't worry....Most of us understood what you meant. :big_smile:
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Quoting from returnofplex:
Well, gee whiz guess I got served! Anyway I probably should have been more specific in that last post. I honestly don't believe in spot reduction as a whole, and wasn't intending to continue the myth. When I wrote "firm-up", it wasn't the best choice of words to use. What I trying to imply was the initial "improvement"(notice the quotations) that people see when they first begin strength training. You know, the visual improvements that come usually after the first couple of weeks. Or if you haven't been in the gym for a few months, and you look at yourself in the mirror the night of, or day after your first or second work out back in the gym. The scale might not budge, but you still look better. I didn't mean to imply that this was actually spot reduction. I try to speak in the most general terms possible, because not all of us have had the opportunity for a highly specialized education, and it bites me in the butt some times. So, yes wrestler you are right, and I apologize to anyone who took that comment to mean that spot reduction was in fact a reality. Perhaps I should have said "spot improvement", so it didn't sound like you could actually choose where the fat actually comes off of.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2008/07/25, 08:49 AM
I understand you're trying to help, and most of what you post here is very good. The problem is when these "general terms" are misinterpreted by people that understand it less than you. Remember that there are beginners on this site that will read what you wrote and go "ooh, spot reduction! i wonderz what supplementz to takez for that!"
Like I said, I wasn't trying to be mean. It just comes natural.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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