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2007/05/08, 05:52 PM
I know that you cannot lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. I know that you have to have a calorie surplus to gain muscle and a deficit to lose fat. What does muscle do when you work out on a calorie deficit? Does it just maintain? i.e. you make no gains whatsoever, just keep what you had, or at least attempt to. I know that I have been excercising and dieting for almost 5 months and I have not made any size or strength gains to speak of, I have lost quiet a bit of weight though. Will I notice a big difference in how my workouts feel when I reach my body fat goal and begin to bulk or change my diet to higher calories?
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2007/05/09, 08:03 PM
someone please answer this question cause i would like to know as well
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2007/05/10, 08:31 AM
When you work out on a caloric deficit your body will naturally turn internally for what it needs. If your diet is in check then you will burn more fat than muscle, but will inevitably burn muscle also.
There are things that can be done to reduce the amount of muscle lost. Continue training and lifting heavy, make sure to get enough protein and eat well, and I've heard (don't quote me) that fish pills help reduce muscle loss during a caloric deficit.
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2007/05/10, 08:32 AM
The key is to keep muscle loss to an absolute minimum, and diet is the key to that.
I would imagine that once you turn from a cut to a bulk that you will notice an energy swing and your workouts may seem better.
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2007/05/10, 09:06 AM
im having the same problem,errr
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2007/05/10, 10:20 AM
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Quoting from rudolfryan:
im having the same problem,errr
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Your Still trying to cut? God man, start lifting and eating before your a buck twenty!
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2007/05/10, 01:08 PM
I agree. Go on a bulk, maybe you won't have as defined of a 6 pack, but having a big chest, back, shoulders and everything look much better than just a stomach when the rest of your body needs work.
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2007/05/10, 09:08 PM
My target is 130 pounds but my limit is 135, i want to have a well defined sixpack though..I still have the last flab and love handles which is really stubborn....
Im Planning to hit HIIT this starting this monday, i really want to get a sixpack..
I do lift, i mean i got to the gym regularly but my 1st goal is to take that flab on my tummy, then ill bulk up.. i want a sexy beach body look hehehe
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2007/05/10, 09:09 PM
sorry for the wrong grammar, my keyboard is messed up
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2007/05/11, 12:15 AM
rodolfryan - I hate to rain on your parade, but I don't think you will have a well defined 6 pack at 130, if you are already 134 in that pic. You need to start bulking, and adding some mass to your frame, shoulders, arms, chest.....hell all over! Hit thos abs hard, same as you do the rest of the body, try cable pulldowns, as heavy as you can, for 3 sets...target 8-10.
Change your routine, add some mass, and then bulk down. Whats the point in cutting down to 8% BF to have a six pack, and then trying to add muscle after that?? You will lose the 6 pack after anyways.
You are lean enough, but you need some muscle on your frame!
Change the work outs, lift as heavy as you can, target 6-8 reps, 3-4 sets. eat lots of protien, and you will love the results!
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2007/05/11, 12:16 AM
Sorry to HI-jack this post
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2007/05/11, 12:28 AM
speeder is totally correct on rodolfryan and when I read what rodolfryan posted my 1st reaction was How Fn' Stupid!
LOL cut to bulk makes no damn sense at all and thats just plain ass backwards!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/11, 12:49 AM
Yes big time too bro!
I was out of shape at 235 pounds 2 years ago so I went on diet, cardio and lifting and as I started reaching my weight goals I got weaker and my workouts got really harder, Why Muscle Loss!
Well I got to 176 pounds and felt Great that I reached a gaol that took 1 year to do but on the other hand I looked in the mirrow and hated the results and totally hated my strenght level at the gym.
Now at 186 pounds and his is all wake up piss and then on a scale not 5 pounds later in the day and all the above weight is the same way, I feel totally better as I just finished 9 months of a Bulk Up or Mass Gains or whatever you want to label it.
My workouts got so much stronger during my bulk and my energy level went through the roof as at the end of my weight loss regime I had no energy left. I did get to 12% BF but that went away in my bulk but I still never got it real high like the 26% I had it at when 235 I would say I got it at the highest to maybe 16% who knows I didn't give a crap I stayed clean and needed to gain.
I believe I did it in a very smart way and that was at the latter stages in my bulk I cut cardio off completely so that as of now I want to Maintain Muscle as much as possible but still Burn back to 12% I add Cardio days back in and Eat around the same but a tad less but not much and in the 1st week this is proving to to show great results.
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Quoting from blaind6:
I know that you cannot lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. I know that you have to have a calorie surplus to gain muscle and a deficit to lose fat. What does muscle do when you work out on a calorie deficit? Does it just maintain? i.e. you make no gains whatsoever, just keep what you had, or at least attempt to. I know that I have been excercising and dieting for almost 5 months and I have not made any size or strength gains to speak of, I have lost quiet a bit of weight though. Will I notice a big difference in how my workouts feel when I reach my body fat goal and begin to bulk or change my diet to higher calories?
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/11, 03:58 AM
Hmm, so maybe 140 is enough? get enough muscles now. Ill try..
I started lifting heavy 3 days ago, taking from the comments that i need more muscles to burn that fat on my tummy,almost all the pips here in gym is lacking on abs, they say its the most difficult..
THats why im challening myself to bring my BF to 10% or less.. Its like a dream come true.. Its just like having playstation 3 on its first debut...
I eat lots of proteins, i mix whey powder with amino tablet on a blender and drink it after my workout..Is that good?
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2007/05/11, 08:33 AM
With low bf and a 6 pack abs it isn't like once you get there you have them forever. You have to continue the cardio, continue the obsessively clean diets in order to maintain them.
Even if you do reach that point, as soon as you start trying to bulk up and gain some muscle they will start to fade anyway.
I think you need to re-examine your goal here.
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2007/05/11, 08:53 AM
rudolf, once you bulk up and add muscle, your body becomes a fat-burning machine. The more muscle, the more fat you burn.
I was in a similar situation as you when I started. I had the infamous beer belly and wanted to get rid of it. After much research and alot of reading here, I decided my best plan of action would be to add as much muscle as possible FIRST, then go after my fat-loss goals.
Patience would be your best bet. Just pony up and take your friends out to eat. Bulk up for a good while. Man, you need it ( I thought I was scrawny hehe). Get to good muscle size, then your fat-loss will be that much easier to obtain!!
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2007/05/11, 08:59 AM
Well since rudolf has brought some much needed attention to my post (not bitter, promise)....just kidding.
When would you guys recommend changing from a cutting phase to bulking in a case like mine. I see that rudolf is a skinny small framed guy...even i know that he should eat more and work heavier, just by looking at him that is obvious...I know a lot of skinny people with a six pack or at least visible abs that still look skinny, not muscular or built. But me, no where near being concerned with a six pack at this point in my fitness journey. I was measured at 17% bodyfat last week and 187 lbs, that is down from 221 lbs. When should I bulk? I am trying to wait until the love handles and lower back fat go down some. I am naturally muscular and large framed. pretty short too. Any advice would be appreciated
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2007/05/11, 09:02 AM
Sorry to run away with yuor thread Blain.
For me the decision was easy. To burn fat, you need muscle. So it was obvious that I should bulk up 1st, then deal with my fat-loss issues.
To me 17% body sounds pretty good, but looking at your latest pic, I would have guessed it was higher (no offense brother!!). I would say no better time then now!!!!
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2007/05/11, 09:18 AM
No problem, i learn from listening to the advice you guys give to other folks too.
Yea, that picture was about 6 weeks ago. Ive lost about 10 lbs since then. the first pic was week 0 and the second was week 12. Next week will be week 19. I was waiting til after 20 weeks for the next pic. I might have considered bulking first but at 5'7" 221 lbs. Cutting seemed like the right thing to do, especially if for no other reason than looking better. How do you transition to bulking from cutting. This seems simple but at lunch now I may have one chicken breast, some brown rice and some broccoli. When I begin to bulk what would you add to that to up your calories? Eat 2 chicken breasts? What do you add to your eating?
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2007/05/11, 09:20 AM
Somwhere around 13-14% I'd say. Wait till your down to about 175-180lbs.
You don't want to work too hard to get lean, and then turn around and gain some back while bulking. But since your still on the losing weight kick, try and get down abit more, and then try and do a bulk, while remaining fairly lean. You don't have to eat 1500 calories more a day to bulk, hell just 250 more a day should be ok
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2007/05/11, 09:23 AM
Ohh I just wwanted to add....this really is a personal choice of when you think your ready...so make the choice on when to bulk, on when you are happy with your body, and feel you have hit your weight loss goals. Just keep in mind when you bulk, you will add a few lbs :dumbbell:
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2007/05/11, 09:37 AM
thanks for the advice...Definitely looking forward to bulking for a while. I get to eat more and do less cardio....sounds like heaven!
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2007/05/11, 09:44 AM
For me when bulking I add 500 calories to my maintainance calorie intake. Meaning 7 days X 500 cals/day= 3500 calories. 3500 calories= one pound :)
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2007/05/11, 09:48 AM
how long do you cycle bulking periods before cutting again?
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2007/05/11, 10:55 AM
Months not a 8 or 9 week thing like some people do and think they bulked.
Took me 9 months to add 11 pounds and keep the BF from getting way out of hand.
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/11, 11:25 AM
sorry for all the questions, but how do you keep the BF from getting too high? You dont do much cardio, right? Is it just a matter of tweaking you calorie intake to just the right amount?
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2007/05/11, 11:53 AM
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Quoting from speeder:
hell just 250 more a day should be ok
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I'm glad I don't take this advice while bulking.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/11, 12:14 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
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Then please add something useful to the conversation...rather than just making cuts...everyone is different, he is coming off a cut, from losing alot of weight. My thoughts here are that if he puts too many calories back in his diet, right away, his body may store it as fat right away. If after a few weeks he's still at the same weight its then time to go higher. Slowly add and adjust as he learns how his body adapts.
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2007/05/11, 12:16 PM
yeah, that seemed a little unnecessary to me.
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2007/05/11, 12:16 PM
the post from wrestler, that is...
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2007/05/11, 05:36 PM
To answer your question about keep BF from going overboard and bulk!
I kept it clean and I didn't act like a total pig I ate just above maintenance, if to maintain is 2300 calories then I for the most part ate 2500 and at time over but for the most part stayed at 2500.
How did I add? More protein and good fats, I made a change in my shake as a mix of 50% Casein 50% whey for PWO and a Milk Protein Isolate for the rest of the day which is 80% Casein and 20% Whey.
Yes my carbs also went up but barley I would say instead of 1/2 cups of Oats and Brown Rice I would go for 3/4 of a cup and at times up to 1 Cup.
My goal wasn't to monsterize myself it was to add 10 pounds as I did and it took me 8 to 9 months to do so but it had allot to do with my lifts too.
My lifts are all base around heavy compound, Deads, Squats, Pull-Up Weighted, Chins Weighted, Dips Weighted and Bench. I mixed it up by some days doing sets of 6 and on others maybe only sets of 3 or 4.
Now I still lift like that even with sets of 3 to 4 but I also will do a second routine at 6 to 9 and a 3rd of 9 to 12. Only exception is Bi's and Tris's I'll do heavy Weight Pulls and Dips and then follow up with only 1 more routine of anywhere from 6 to 12 depending on hoe I feel.
I learned all this here and it works and I can;t say how much a difference it is when you focus around Heavy Compound. Heavy for you might be Big Mans warm-up but if it's hard to get 6 of then up it's getting heavy period!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/11, 05:43 PM
Eveyone may react different but for the most Part you can STILL LOOK GOOD AND BULK I DID!
A major thing I left out is when your doing Bulking and you want to keep most to all of your muscle add cardio back in and barley back off you intake and let your body catch up to your new muscle.
We add muscle to burn fat so then don't hard diet the muscle away let your body catch up to it and just keep going on and it will go away. Bodybuilder's and Models are at exception but the very smart ones are the ones we learn all this from, if you have no need to get ripped in a matter of time to meet a deadline then just take your time and let your body do most of the work for you!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/11, 05:50 PM
Thanks alot for all your advice. Got a lot of learning to do.
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2007/05/12, 09:18 AM
at 5'8, what should my weight be to look like a six pack beach body model? i gained 2 pounds, im at 136 right now.. I guess all my plan was wrong after reading from all the post.
My plan before was to go down at 130 thinking that when i reach that weight i would have gone to 10% Body fat, but i guess muscle is the key to burn more calories and get that sixpack. Its just that im so afraid of eating because i really do have a slow metabolism compared to others.. I can gain 1 pound on 1 day i swear..and all that will go to fat.. GRRRRRR...
Patience patience patience..Ill add muscle now, ill depend my sixpack dream to my muscle growth i guess.. WIsh me luck...thanks
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2007/05/12, 05:12 PM
1 POUND A DAY IN FAT MY ASS!
Another example of not knowing water weight from fat gain.
Wake up take a piss and then weigh yourself and this will be your true weight and later on in the day you'll be 5 pounds heavier WATER RETENTION!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/12, 06:07 PM
So how many of you guys study metabolism??? You put in 250 extra calories on a cutting diet, that won't even put you at baseline.
If you were to add 250 calories to your baseline, provided your workouts are sound, that would probably raise your BMR by about 230 calories. You would be able to workout harder, and in turn would burn more calories. Anyone that has ever done an actual bulking cycle can tell you this.
As soon as you start to take in extra calories, you will find that your workouts get better. You will be stronger and have higher energy levels than if you are at a true baseline. This will burn more calories. 250 calories is nothing, or next to it.
Your body is resistant to building muscle. Unless you give it a good reason (and 250 calories is not a good reason) to do so, then it won't.
Yes, there will be fat gain when bulking, suck it up. The best you can do is to make your caloric increase in the form of clean foods, like SFGiants mentioned.
I've never seen someone lift weights, eat a clean diet, and still gain these ton's of fat everyone is talking about. If this happens to you, then you are doing something wrong.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/12, 06:10 PM
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Quoting from rudolfryan:
My plan before was to go down at 130 thinking that when i reach that weight i would have gone to 10% Body fat, but i guess muscle is the key to burn more calories and get that sixpack. Its just that im so afraid of eating because i really do have a slow metabolism compared to others.. I can gain 1 pound on 1 day i swear..and all that will go to fat.. GRRRRRR...
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Have you tried lifting weights?
If you 136lbs, then no matter what you say, you don't have a slow metabolism.
I notice in your profile it mentions you are from the Phillipines, a region I'm pretty sure is known for it's rice and other high carb foods? Try cutting your carbs down, and don't weigh yourself everyday.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/12, 07:54 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
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Yup, i just hate the foods here in the Philippines.. 80% of the people doesnt even care about their diet and they all say im too busy and dont have time to exercise..
I already have a low carbo intake, i dont eat rice anymore. I get my carbs from wheat bread oatmeals and beans.
Quoting from SFgiants
Yup i do take a piss and take a shit before i weigh myself. I do have a slow metabolism believe it or not.. I used to be 170 pounds 2 years ago..I just got really serious this march on my body.. Then april i said goodbye to white rice..
Thanks for all the critics and suggestions... ^^
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2007/05/13, 01:16 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
So how many of you guys study metabolism??? You put in 250 extra calories on a cutting diet, that won't even put you at baseline.
If you were to add 250 calories to your baseline, provided your workouts are sound, that would probably raise your BMR by about 230 calories. You would be able to workout harder, and in turn would burn more calories. Anyone that has ever done an actual bulking cycle can tell you this.
As soon as you start to take in extra calories, you will find that your workouts get better. You will be stronger and have higher energy levels than if you are at a true baseline. This will burn more calories. 250 calories is nothing, or next to it.
Your body is resistant to building muscle. Unless you give it a good reason (and 250 calories is not a good reason) to do so, then it won't.
Yes, there will be fat gain when bulking, suck it up. The best you can do is to make your caloric increase in the form of clean foods, like SFGiants mentioned.
I've never seen someone lift weights, eat a clean diet, and still gain these ton's of fat everyone is talking about. If this happens to you, then you are doing something wrong.
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Sorry I should have been more specific I did mean add 250 more than your maintance Calories, and not just add 250 more to your current cutting diet.
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2007/05/13, 03:07 PM
Remember this also...tons of protein in no way insures muscle growth. The suppliment companies would have you believe so.
Testosterone is what will make the difference. How many times have you seen someone who eats what the 'clean eating police' would condemn as a shitty diet, and still make great gains. Meanwhile you are eating tons of chicken and more chicken, and not gaining anything.
With low test levels, protien is simply another nutrient your body will use to fullfill its needs, which it does quite nicely by the way.
You may well burn calories and not be a 'fat ass', but probably not heavily muscled either.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2007/05/13, 04:57 PM
Yeah I think this is where the deadlifts and squats help me a bit.
I do them each once a week but always switching up reps and weight and ect but never both on same day. Deads on Monday and a Squat form on Friday.
I didn't gain a ton just 10 pounds and not all of it is muscle some fat come with it but I did add and I'm happier now but it's time to bring the fat down a tad again to around 11% or 12%.
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/05/14, 09:52 PM
Ron makes an excellent point. My definition of clean involves lots of fats of all kinds, occasionally a greasy meal, and a crapload of carbs PWO. Cholesterol converts to testosterone, and fat is needed to do... well everything.
Maybe I wasn't perfectly clear in response to speeder's post. I'm not talking 250 calories over cutting, or 250 calories over maintainence. I'm telling you that 250 calories either way is nothing. You want to build muscle, you need to actually EAT, believe it or not.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/15, 06:03 AM
I know i may not fit into this thread cause im not a *bulker* per say. However, Amy finally beat it into my head to eat more complex carbs..but it wasnt just that i was to eat the carbs, it was WHEN i ate them...
everything wrestler, bb and SP are saying all together is definitely true...
feed your body...just like a car needs gas, oil water...a balance of all three...it runs smooth yes?...maybe not the best analogy but im sure you get the point...
some may not agree with the following but it holds true to me...I dont eat because i really want to most of the tiime..i eat because i have to...if i ate when i was truly hungry id be so skinny...and ill be damn if im gonna be skinny :p
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There is no such thing as a *set point*. Im only set on getting past this point :)
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2007/05/21, 06:29 PM
I just started working out about 2 weeks ago doing the weight loss and defintion training working out 3 days a week i started at 265 i now am at roughly 257 i would like to get down to between 205-215 but i don't want to lose a lot of muscle mass any suggestions?
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2007/05/21, 06:50 PM
All you can really do is work out keeping your weights high, keep your protein levels high, and do a flexible dieting plan. This means diet no more than 6-8 weeks, 10 weeks max without a break.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2007/05/21, 09:14 PM
please note the key word BBfit uses here is *flexible*..nothing is ever set in stone..our bodies are constantly changing as we train....we must be *flexible* with it... :D
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Quoting from bb1fit:
All you can really do is work out keeping your weights high, keep your protein levels high, and do a flexible dieting plan. This means diet no more than 6-8 weeks, 10 weeks max without a break.
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There is no such thing as a *set point*. Im only set on getting past this point :)
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2007/05/22, 08:33 AM
why not diet longer than 10 weeks. Ive been dieting for 20 weeks this week. I have definitely hit a plateau. No weight lost for about 3 weeks now. Should I go to maintanence for a couple of weeks and then start dieting again to break the plateau or should I try a different diet. My diet now is just clean foods i.e. lean meats, complex carbs, lots of veggies. And I keep my calories about 500 below maintanence. I did cut my calories too much in ignorance in the beginning and I think that may have slowed down my metabolism. Any tips for breaking the plateau would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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2007/05/22, 04:40 PM
I mean why not diet for longer than 10 weeks? a question, not a statement.
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2007/05/22, 09:31 PM
why not diet for longer than 10 weeks?...for the exact reason your posting your question....you have hit a plateau...give your body a break from dieting..now, mind you, this doesnt mean go out and binge and get crazy...but,if im not mistaken, it means allowing yourself to deviate from your macro ratio some...allow yourself alittle more fat..or a bit more carbs..some cheats..not couting your calories....this will give your body a *shock* effect of sorts..
believe me..i was afraid to do this...i thought i would sabotage myself...but i felt good to *let my hair down*....mentally i was more at ease cause i wasnt so intently focused on everything...
just remember once youve had your little *vacation*...get right back on track.....you will see that you will be even more focused and refreshed....just like a regular vacation...
good luck :D
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There is no such thing as a *set point*. Im only set on getting past this point :)
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2007/06/14, 10:02 AM
Good Day, I am Jomari.. 21.
Personally, I am around the same build as Blaind6, I am 5' 9" 224lbs. This may seem to be high for my height, but I am also built wide, meaning I basically look like Blaind's 12 weeks after photo, with maybe a little more chest.
The thing I am trying to become clear on is the muscle burning and fat. Is this a good assumption technically:
if I work out harder for muscle gains while maintaining my caloric diet, it will natural utilize my fat to build the muscle thereby, possibly, maintaining my weight, but decreasing my fat?
Or will it just build muscle beneath my fat, making me an even wider guy?
I ask this because I can see my abdominal muscles through the sheet of fat. The insulation of fat and side handles are what bothers me.
I dont care about my weight, but about the overall look of my body
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