|
2008/01/10, 12:18 PM
i have a very high metabolism and i can't gain weight.I've tried eating more before i work out and i've tried being just lazy for a while but nothing seems to work.how can i really gain weight or slow my metabolism
|
|
|
|
2008/01/10, 12:41 PM
Over the last 14yrs (6 of which on here) I have seen hundreds say that. I bet if you counted exactly what you ate it is iunder 2000 cals a day. I know you wanted to hear differently, but you simply are not eating enough.
--------------
FOR MY WIFE:
Her little ring was a little thing
but it was all that i could afford
now shes mine all mine
till the day i die
and i never wanted nothing more
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2008/01/11, 10:24 AM
Hi,
I am what they call a "hard-gainer" as well. What worked for me was getting to a program of mostly compound exercises with low reps and heavy weights. I also added a whey powder in milk drink first thing in the morning and right after a workout (this is an easy way to add 70 grams of protein a day).
Sean
|
|
2008/01/11, 11:53 AM
I'd drop the milk post workout. Drink it with water instead.
|
|
2008/01/11, 01:03 PM
Ahh...if they are having trouble gaining weight, why would want them to drop the milk?
Other ideas.
Put a shot of olive oil in your shakes.
Eat more calorie dense foods like nuts.
The bottom line is that you are not eating enough. It really is that simple.
|
|
2008/01/11, 01:51 PM
============
Quoting from ecle5c:
I'd drop the milk post workout. Drink it with water instead.
=============
What? Why?
--------------
Michael
Strength & Conditioning is not everything; it just really sucks to be weak and slow.
|
|
2008/01/11, 02:20 PM
Posted by bb1 a while ago
Ok, I do not know where you are getting your information from, but it is not good info. It is mixed with some fact, but very short on real world practicalities. I could go into the milk thing in the first place, it is in no way the "perfect food", in fact far from it. A few tidbits..
The path that transforms healthy milk products into allergens and carcinogens begins with modern feeding methods that substitute high-protein, soy-based feeds for fresh green grass and breeding methods to produce cows with abnormally large pituitary glands so that they produce three times more milk than the old fashioned scrub cow. These cows need antibiotics to keep them well.
Their milk is then pasteurized so that all valuable enzymes are destroyed (lactase for the assimilation of lactose; galactase for the assimilation of galactose; phosphatase for the assimilation of calcium).
Literally dozens of other precious enzymes are destroyed in the pasteurization process. Without them, milk is very difficult to digest. The human pancreas is not always able to produce these enzymes; over-stress of the pancreas can lead to diabetes and other diseases.
The butterfat of commercial milk is homogenized, subjecting it to rancidity. Even worse, butterfat may be removed altogether. Skim milk is sold as a health food, but the truth is that butter-fat is in milk for a reason.
Without it the body cannot absorb and utilize the vitamins and minerals in the water fraction of the milk. Along with valuable trace minerals and short chain fatty acids, butterfat is America's best source of preformed vitamin A.
Synthetic vitamin D, known to be toxic to the liver, is added to replace the natural vitamin D complex in butterfat. Butterfat also contains re-arranged acids which have strong anti-carcinogenic properties.
The recent approval by the FDA of the use of BGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) by dairy farmers to increase their milk production only worsens the already sad picture.
BGH will also decrease the body fat of cows. Unfortunately, the body fat of cows is already contaminated with a wide range of carcinogens, pesticides, dioxin, and antibiotic residues. When the cows have less body fat, these toxic substances are then transported into the cows' milk.
So much for milk as the perfect food....now to address post workout...and notice the references
Adding milk is, in general, a bad idea. It will slow the absorption of amino acids in the gut during a period when you want a rapid increase in blood amino-acid levels. Milk protein is composed of two fractions, which are casein (accounting for approximately 80% of the protein in milk) and whey (which accounts for the remaining 20%) These have, respectively, been characterized as 'slow' and 'fast' proteins according to the rate at which they are digested and the speed at which amino-acids enter the bloodstream. (1) Whey results in a rapid, high spike in blood amino acid level which is highly anabolic, whereas casein results in a slow, steady increase in plasma amino-acid levels that is anti-catabolic in nature. (2) Mahe et al, who looked at the differences in digestion between casein and beta-lactoglobulin (which is the major subfraction in whey) found that casein clots in the acidic environment of the stomach, which delays gastric emptying, and results in a prolonged, steady released of amino-acids. (this is good any time but post workout). Whey, in contrast, remains soluble in the stomach, and quickly makes its way further down the digestive track resulting in the characteristic rapid peak in blood amino levels.
"While some have inferred from the research that by consuming both casein and whey together you'll get both the anti-catabolic effects of casein along with the anabolism of whey, this is unlikely. As a number of others(studies) have pointed out, it is more likely that since casein clots in the gut, and slows gastric emptying, you'll be slowing down the whey, causing it to act much like casein."
References
1. Fruhbeck G. Protein metabolism. Slow and fast dietary proteins. Nature. 391(6670):843, 845, 1998 Feb 26.
2. Mahe S. Roos N. Benamouzig R. Davin L. Luengo C. Gagnon L. Gausserges N. Rautureau J. Tome D. Gastrojejunal kinetics and the digestion of (15N)beta-lactoglobulin and casein in humans: the influence of the nature and quantity of the protein. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 63(4):546-52, 1996 Apr.
3. Tipton KD. Rasmussen BB. Miller SL. Wolf SE. Owens-Stovall SK. Petrini BE. Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. American Journal of Physiology - Endocrinology & Metabolism. 281(2):E197-206, 2001 Aug.
Mixing your post-workout protein shake with milk is not a bad idea per se, but at best it?s sub-par. One of the functions that insulin works is by translocation of GLUT4 (?glucose transporter 4?) receptors to the cell membrane (1). GLUT4 is basically one of the glucose receptors (there are others) that allow glucose uptake in the cell.
As well, casein is the predominant protein that milk consists of (about 80% or so, with about 20% being whey). Casein actually forms clots in the stomach during digestion, forming a sort of paste that slows digestion further. Again, this is not something you?re striving for, so milk consumption during this time is not the obvious choice.
References:
(1) Need for GLUT4 activation to reach maximum effect of insulin-mediated glucose uptake in brown adipocytes isolated from GLUT4myc-expressing mice.
Diabetes. 2002 Sep;51(9):2719-26.
(2) Intracellular mechanisms underlying increases in glucose uptake in response to insulin or exercise in skeletal muscle.
Acta Physiol Scand. 2001 Mar;171(3):249-57
(3) The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.
(4) Post-ischemic stimulation of 2-deoxyglucose uptake in rat myocardium: role of translocation of Glut-4.
J Mol Cell Cardiol. 1998 Feb;30(2):393-403.
(5) Gastic emptying and intragastric distribution of lipids in man. A new scintigraphic method of study. Dig Dis Sci (1982) 27 (8): 705-711.
(6) In vivo and in vitro gastric emptying of milk replacers containing soybean proteins. J Dairy Sci. 1994 Feb;77(2):533-40.
|
|
2008/01/11, 02:22 PM
Sorry for the book of a post, just posting where I got my information from.
I am not saying drop milk all together, actually just the opposite. I drink a lot of milk, it is easy calories with good protein. I am just saying drop the milk out of the PWO shake. Drink another glass later if you need to make up for the calories.
|
|
2008/01/11, 02:35 PM
lilbizzyballa im a "hardgainer" too. i weighed 115 about 3 years ago but ive been eating plenty of food and i weigh 180 now. it is very easy for me to lose muscle or any body weight for that matter though. its terrible. my gym closed down last year and i had to wait 4 months to get back to the gym and i lost like 20 pounds
--------------
Veni,Vidi,Vici.= I came, I saw, I conquered.- Ceasar
|
|
2008/01/11, 03:07 PM
But why drop it? Here is another post by BB1. I did not copy the entire post as it was very long........
...............milk may provide a near ideal post-workout food in that it contains a combination of casein and whey (the ratio found in milk is 80% casein/20% whey) along with some simple sugars. This is in addition to a number of nutrients including dairy calcium (which some studies suggest impacts on fat loss and calorie partitioning). Two glasses of milk will contain 16 grams of protein along with 24 grams of carbs and can make an effective post-workout drink (fat content will depend on what type of milk is chosen, skim, 1 or 2% or whole milk); lactose intolerant individuals can use products like Lactaid (lactose removed milk).
============
Quoting from ecle5c:
Sorry for the book of a post, just posting where I got my information from.
I am not saying drop milk all together, actually just the opposite. I drink a lot of milk, it is easy calories with good protein. I am just saying drop the milk out of the PWO shake. Drink another glass later if you need to make up for the calories.
=============
|
|
2008/01/11, 04:38 PM
Sounds similar to the "to load, or not to load" debate with creatine. I think you can find good information to support either argument so debating at this point isn't going to get us anywhere.
Obviously the original poster needs to eat more, just flat out put more calories in their body. This can be done with or without milk in a PWO shake. Bottom line, figure out what works for you and stick with it.
|
|
2008/01/11, 04:42 PM
Guys that first post by BB was from like 2002 I think the other was from last year, times and knowledge change
--------------
FOR MY WIFE:
Her little ring was a little thing
but it was all that i could afford
now shes mine all mine
till the day i die
and i never wanted nothing more
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2008/01/12, 04:12 AM
Exactly, Mutt. New research from last year demonstrates that the gut can actually split what protein it needs for when. So when consuming a whey and casein blend, they will still be both used accordingly. Plus, with the carbs, and maybe a little extra (hence the popularity of chocolate milk recently), it is becoming quite the post workout meal.
--------------
Michael
Strength & Conditioning is not everything; it just really sucks to be weak and slow.
|
|
2008/01/12, 03:18 PM
Milk has a huge glycemic response as well. It is great at spiking insulin levels, and this is just another reason it is good PWO.
--------------
SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2008/01/14, 09:11 AM
Sorry, I didn't know that the science changed. How does one come out with a conclusive study saying one thing and then two years later come out with another study saying the exact opposite?
It isn't like the science changes or our bodies have all of a sudden evolved to be able to disseminate between cassein and whey. Was the first study just way off the mark or how else do you explain completely contradictory studies in half a decade?
|
|
2008/01/19, 08:09 AM
============
Quoting from ecle5c:
Sorry, I didn't know that the science changed. How does one come out with a conclusive study saying one thing and then two years later come out with another study saying the exact opposite?
It isn't like the science changes or our bodies have all of a sudden evolved to be able to disseminate between cassein and whey. Was the first study just way off the mark or how else do you explain completely contradictory studies in half a decade?
=============
I was wondering the exact same thing.
|
|
2008/01/20, 02:42 AM
The science never changes, just the position on how we view it. We have a very limited frame of reference in this world, and, every so often, a paradigm shift occurs, and so does our way of looking at things. It can be anything: something relatively small like the topic mentioned above; or something more global, like discovering that the sun is the center of the Solar system. It's just the inherent flaws in our reasoning that make themselves apparent to us every so often, and just empahsises the reality of how much of this almost infinite universe we can actually grasp with our miniscule little minds.
--------------
Michael
Strength & Conditioning is not everything; it just really sucks to be weak and slow.
|
|
2008/01/20, 11:33 AM
Forget this fitness stuff Michael, you should be a philosophy professor. Your skeptics could not ridicule you because you are bigger than they are.
|
|
2008/01/28, 11:11 AM
Hi Guys
Well thanks for everyone jumping in here as this is very interesting. Can I ask for some clarification or verification of how I am interpreting all of this. As a general rule I always thought that by making the shake with milk I was giving myself a good combination of fast absorbing protein (whey) and slow absorbing protein (casein). The bit of science posted here indicates that the casein congeals in the stomach and inhibits the quick absorption of the whey protein and quick absorption post workout is what we want out of our protein?
Thanks
Sean
|
|
2008/01/28, 12:59 PM
That was the point I was making above. Basically, since the study I posted the information has been viewed from another position and the general stance has changed.
Read KAs post above and go with that info.
|
