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2007/07/11, 09:54 PM
I have been working out with a home gym and some free weights and have just changed my routine after 8 weeks or so. My home gym is limited---only a 100 lb weight stack, which I thought would be fine as I'm not looking to gain much mass. It's one of those "seated" press machines with a high and low hand position. I had been doing six sets (3 each position) of presses of 10-12 reps without much burn. I have changed this recently to 2 sets of 25 reps for both the high and low grip position (total of 4 sets of 25 reps). After each set I do a set of 15 machine butterflys (seated) immediately, then rest for a minute. This totals 3 sets of machine flys. The press weight is not much, I think only 90 lbs---but the machine maxes out at 126 lbs. After 19 or 20 reps the burn is really felt in the tris and shoulders.
After these sets, I do 2 sets/10 reps of incline dumbell flys and presses (flys then presses without dropping weight) and finish with the same flys-->presses on a decline bench. I work each muscle group directly just once per week to allow for max recovery.
With Chest I also work the Triceps---3-4 sets of pushdowns, 2 sets of reverse push downs, and 3 sets each of dumbell kickbacks and either skull crushers or overhead extensions.
With all things considered and what I have available, is this chest workout acceptable? I think I've read that the two hand positions on the machine are apparently simulating a flat and incline chest press. Any assistance and guidance would be greatly appreciated...then I'll seek help with my shoulder and back/bi routines!!!
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\"...Damn, I ate too much again...\"
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2007/07/14, 11:24 AM
Any ideas? Should I be posting this in the intermediate/advanced weight training forum?? Please advise and thanks!
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2007/07/14, 03:52 PM
Lets face it, most home gym equipment is limited unless you have the finance to build golds gym in your spare room. Invest in joining a fully equipped gym and get the knowledge and training of a qualified trainer.
If a gym is not an option please post back and im sure members will try and work a solution around your limited training gear. Dont lose heart....
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2007/07/14, 04:21 PM
If mass is your goal, unfortunately more reps with the same weight will do little. You will be building muscle endurance, a little strength, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, as mentioned, little mass/strength gains will take place. Depends on your goals. What you are now doing is an excellent way to lose fat and build endurance, you are burning up calories. This kind of workout is also excellent for say a firefighter.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2007/07/14, 10:57 PM
I prefer to work out at home, usually early morning before work or after the kids are in bed. I have a few pieces of cardio equipment---recumbent and elliptical, to go along with the home gym and dumbell bench and I believe this suits me well as I'm definately not looking to gain mass, with the possible exception of my shoulders. I'm just looking for guidance with regard to my actual routines and whether I am overdoing it or performing a solid routine for each muscle group.
And bbfit, speaking of this workout for a firefighter, I'm an RN doing 12 hour shifts on a psych unit for older adults---there's alot of lifting of patients going on and I decided to get back into the swing of things because I was always straining my back or dinging a shoulder after assisting a 300 pound person to and from bed. I have a troublesome sacral-iliac joint and know I should be doing some type of lower back training---need to research this more. Thanks for your replies.
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2007/07/14, 10:57 PM
I prefer to work out at home, usually early morning before work or after the kids are in bed. I have a few pieces of cardio equipment---recumbent and elliptical, to go along with the home gym and dumbell bench and I believe this suits me well as I'm definately not looking to gain mass, with the possible exception of my shoulders. I'm just looking for guidance with regard to my actual routines and whether I am overdoing it or performing a solid routine for each muscle group.
And bbfit, speaking of this workout for a firefighter, I'm an RN doing 12 hour shifts on a psych unit for older adults---there's alot of lifting of patients going on and I decided to get back into the swing of things because I was always straining my back or dinging a shoulder after assisting a 300 pound person to and from bed. I have a troublesome sacral-iliac joint and know I should be doing some type of lower back training---need to research this more. Thanks for your replies.
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2007/07/15, 01:09 AM
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Quoting from baymaster:
Lets face it, most home gym equipment is limited unless you have the finance to build golds gym in your spare room. Invest in joining a fully equipped gym and get the knowledge and training of a qualified trainer.
If a gym is not an option please post back and im sure members will try and work a solution around your limited training gear. Dont lose heart....
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That is simply false. My gym equipment in big commercial gyms is utter crap. The truth is you dont need huge comfy machines to get the desired results. Doesnt matter if you're 5 or 105. No it doesnt involve Bowflex(garbage) or Total Gym(crap). Very simply it involves free weights. You can get a set of barbell and weights(usually 300lb) for under 200$. Often you can get used weights for very cheap. The benefits of freeweights over any commercial machine are many. You can go as heavy as you like. (You'll have easier time using exact weight in smaller increments. You'll need to stabilize and balance the weight which will activate more overall muscles. The exercise selection is unlimited. Natural Range of motion during exercises. etc)
My suggested equipment list:
Power rack: they range in price but you can get a sufficient one for 200-300$....less if you get it used...make sure it has support/spotter bars. Even better if they have a pull up bar.
Weights: Barbell with at least 300lb of weight. You can often find these for under 100$. Def under 200$. If you got more money than a couple adjustable DBs are great also.(tho they are not necessary)
Adjustable/Flat Bench: Adjustable bench will cost a bit more and usually you can find one for around 100$.
You'll probably will need to get some other things like weight mats, chalk, etc but these are fairly inexpensive/cheap and can be found easily.
After a while you can add things like bands, chains, boxes,chain belt, etc. But again these are not that expensive and can be added at any time.
I highly recommend you do lower rep lifting using compound freeweight exercises. You will become stronger and more functional in whatever you will do. You need to start doing like squat, deadlift, overhead press, bent over row, bench press, pull ups, lunges, stepups, etc variations. Performing reps of 1-5 for most working sets. Dont waste time doing small potato exericses like curls, flyes, etc...atleast not at first. Whether you gain 'mass' is dependant upon your diet/nutrition and not so much on your lifting.
Good luck.
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2007/07/15, 01:10 AM
My gym=Most* gym....
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2007/07/15, 01:17 AM
reading some of your later posts as a medic you definitely need to start lifting freeweights. Also when working out start thinking in terms of lifts not body parts. You dont think about which muscles are helping you assist the 300lb person so in the same manner you should not think which muscles are being worked during weight lifting. You're doing everything as 1 unit. This is why you need to do big lifts like squats, deadlifts, etc. Becoming stronger in these lifts you'll notice a huge difference in how much easier your job will become from a physical stand point.
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2007/07/15, 03:55 AM
If people wish to train at home fine but sooner or later you will run out of options. The key to progress is change which means a home gym has its limitations. A friend of mine has a treadmill at home (no problem, does exactly what it is supossed to do) he also has a £600 multi gym whch is the biggest pile of crap i have ever used. The range of motion is poor, the design is poor , the whole feel of it is poor. Free weights is the better option but can you really push to failure when benching a barbell without the risk of getting stuck at the bottom?. I used to train at home hence my opinion on this subject, gym v home?..gym wins evertime for me.
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Quoting from menace3000:
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2007/07/15, 07:16 AM
IF you have the right equipment yes you can bench with out fear. And lets look at what the posters is after...better physcial shape for work not break records on 1rep max. Menance is right....if you truly want to lift at home equip right. A good cage, bench and 300lbs of freeweights will usually cost about as much as a year in most gyms.
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/07/15, 08:46 AM
baymaster - that is ridiculous - how do you run out of options? There isn't really much need beyond the tried and true basic moves, and much of the new style 'functional' training doesn't require expensive equipment....
What is it you can't do at home that you can do at the gym?
If you have a decent free weight set up and an incline/decline bench, a pull-up bar or pull-down stand you don't need much more to get a good workout. You can always add additional weight, or other 'toys' like menace mentioned to intensify the workouts.
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Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak.
Thomas Carlyle
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2007/07/15, 11:51 AM
From what you are stating as to your lifestyle/job, you may want to initiate more functional type training which will assist your needs more. Bodybuilding per se' may not be your answer.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2007/07/15, 03:50 PM
Baymaster you wont run out of options with freeweights. There are literally hundreds of variations of squats, deadlifts, ohps, olympic movements, etc. Training with machines is generally a bad idea unless there's a very specific reason like recovering from an injury.
Bench pressing inside a cage you can in fact bench to failure if you so desire. However that is generally a bad idea. You do realize just because you do low reps you dont need to go to failure. I often do things like 10 sets of 1 at ~90% of 1rm. This allows for better form and to do more volume than I otherwise could handle.
Being a medic you may get a lot of use out of sandbag training or perhaps a keg filled with water/sand. This is a very functional form of training that allows you to train on a constantly moving object as you would encounter in real life situations. It's quite cheap to make/get(you can often get a keg free from brewery)....again....limitless options with it in terms of exercises.
I would also recommend training your grip. I am sure in your profession having the required grip to support someone is of great importance. Grippers, blocks, etc are all very useful and fairly inexpensive. However there are hundreds of other methods of training grip without even buying the things I mentioned. A lot of things you can either make yourself or just improvise with what you have already.
Many commercial gyms these days are becoming a joke(from not allowing chalk to deadlifts, eliminating squat racks/free weights, etc). If i could create a home gym I would definitely do it. Many hardcore lifters train at home for this very reason.
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2007/07/15, 08:14 PM
Thanks for all the info and recommendations. I had been using gree weights/incline bench but stopped working out two years ago. I started up again a few months ago, and opted for the gym for a few reasons. My space is very limited and this thing fits better than the free weights. My equipment is in our spare room with a slanted ceiling and only a full height ceiling that's about five feet wide. I don't even think I could fit a cage up here. I also got caught a few times while benching (with no spot) and decided to stop that nonsense (the no spot nonsense). And as Mutt noticed, I'm not interested in seeing what my one rep max is on any lift and certaintly won't be posting on any "What's your max..." threads.
With that being said, I KNOW the limitations with what I'm using---much of my workouts are done with free weights and curl/dumbells and an incline/decline dumbell bench. Mass is not the goal---looking to lower overall bodyfat and gain some strength and endurance. Just looking for guidance with regard to my workouts and sets/reps, etc. I'm using the gym for presses, lat pulls and rows, tri press downs, legs, and flys. I listened to Asimmer's advice on another post and have added legs, possibly thinking about working legs two days a week. I will be looking into what type of compound movements I can do with my bars/DBs to address my lower back and spine, possibly lunges, dead lifts, etc. Thanks again for the feedback...
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2007/07/16, 12:01 AM
think about doing pull/push/squat split or perhaps a 5x5 variation. All great beginner programs.
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2007/07/16, 09:26 AM
I agree with menace on this one. You can buy a power rack for 230 shipped to your door off of nextag.com I believe.
300lb weight set (ebay look for your city/state), and an adjustable bench (100-150). Baymaster doesn't know what he is talking about with the limitations comment. With that set up I can do every gym muscle building exercise in the space of a 10ftx10ft square in my home. If anyone knows of a target muscle group that you can hit in the gym but not with this setup, please post so one of us can direct you to the proper free weight exercise. Take care and I wish you good luck in your home lifting. Prior to getting a free weight setup, try 1 handed pushups for low reps to hit your compound exercises prior to blasting your triceps.
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2007/07/17, 03:19 PM
A bit touchy guys, been in this game for 20 years so I do have an opinion although it doesnt feel like it given the posts. You fail to see the advantage of a gym from a novice point of view which I think im right in saying Steveki is. Do you think satisfactory progress will be made with one 100lb machine at such a critical time. By critical I mean the early days when people just start out and dont make the expected progress and the weights just end up gathering dust. Anyone hazard a guess how may people go beyond the first 6 weeks of training? 10% would be on the generous side. I really like this site but there is a gap betwen written advice for the novice and standing next to him in the gym. I used to train at home but joining the gym was the best thing I ever did. The wallcharts in my garage didnt really help, watching others in the gym either good, bad or indifferent was invaluable. I wasted 8 months of my life in my garage and i sincerly wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Good luck steveki, my only advice is read all the posts and make your own mind up but remember your ultimately going to have to work it out for yourself
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2007/07/17, 08:33 PM
As I said earlier I had used free weights exclusively at various times but never stuck with it for more than a year at a time due to life changes, kids, school---I'm 37. The "home" gym was more out of necessity, space, and time---convenience. And although I consider myself a "novice" in this forum and on this site, I did know enough to want to run up to the guy ripping through 10 tricep dumbell "swing" backs inside of 6 seconds at the YMCA and smack him upside the head. I like being able to workout at home---at any time---and am actually seeing gains. Increased mass?? Not exactly, but a definite decrease in body fat and much more definition, and that is my goal. I am seeing, or should I say "feeling" an increase in size in my shoulders as my scrubs are a bit tighter in that region.
With my limited equipment, I like Menace's advice on a 5 X 5 variation and need to make some time to develop a new routine following this principle. I believe this will allow me to get more out of the limited machine. I also need to figure out the cardio routine to limit any muscle loss...Thanks for the replies.
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2007/07/18, 08:21 AM
I think that where you workout , and whether you stick with it, will depend on the type of motivation you need - some people are very good self motivators and will work out at home, see progress and stick with it. Other people have the need for more external motivation and benefit from the gym environment.
Unfortunately, those who do stick with it are the minority, but that usually doesn't have as much to do with the where or the variety of movements as it does with lack of emphasis on health in our country and the ability to set realistic, meaningful goals.
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Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak.
Thomas Carlyle
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2007/07/18, 08:23 AM
PS - try doing HIIT on alternate days for cardio - it is fast and leans you out without really dipping into muscle, in my experience. As long as your eating plan is up to par, you shouldn't lose muscle from cardio.
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Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak.
Thomas Carlyle
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2007/07/18, 01:29 PM
If you are making gains at home then fantastic. If your preference is to work out at home then bloody fantastic and I wish you all the luck in the world. Im passionate about my sport and want to share it with all who will listen but the new faces who turn up at my gym and after two weeks are never seen again drives me to despair.Im sure the failure rate must be much higher for those who train at home. I want everyone to get through the initial 'tough' period when they first start out and open the door to an amazing lifestyle.
Sincere good luck - push hard and never give in
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2007/07/18, 06:48 PM
Thanks and I do feel more motivated this time around---I'm going on six months of no smoking, which is my longest stint of quitting success to date. I am pushing myself harder this time around and, because of the lack of smoking, have more energy to begin with. I have also cut out the long 45-60 minute cardio sessions I would do once or twice per week on off days and have been sticking to HIIT for 20 minutes. Occasionally I'll mix it up and do 15 on the bike and 15 on the elliptical. I would love to get out and just RUN but my shins always give out, no matter how hard I try to concentrate on form and posture.
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2007/07/18, 10:20 PM
Baymaster dont get us wrong we're not jumping over your suggestions however I feel like some of your advice is misguided. Freeweights are perfectly safe for beginners. the reason i prefer freeweights right off the bat is because you want to develop body in a balance/symmetry. You want to train all the different stabilizers and small muscles which simply dont get much stimulation from machines or otherwise. I agree a beginner may need some initial guidance but it's highly dependant on individual. I think watching videos online and htne video taping oneself for form comparison is a great idea but I am not sure how many people would go through the trouble. For most people lifting is an afterthought.
Sticking with lifting is not dependant upon freeweights, machines, or where one trains. One's motivation comes from one's goals and determination. You seem to have this negative view of weights even though you admitted that you never stuck with it for more than a year. Lifting on and off does not make you proficient at lifting weights or even that knowledgeable. It literally takes people a lifetime to know what they are doing in the weight room. The dynamics of lifting change with one's experience.
I personally think watching people in the gym is setting oneself for failure. 90+% dont have a clue as to what they are doing. Not only do they do all the wrong exercises but they often do it too light or with horrible form. Finding knowledgeable coaches is a much better idea and for which u do not need to join a gym. I honestly feel that the most basic set ups accomplish 99% of the results.
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2007/07/18, 10:22 PM
ignore my comment about about not training more than a year nonstop...I accidently fused yours and sveskis posts...
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2007/07/19, 03:30 PM
For the record, and lets try and bury this debate I use 80% free weights in the gym but prefer to train alone. A machine can and does give me the advantage of pushing to failure without having to rely on someone else to 'bail' me out. Free weights is another debate, the range of motion, the ability to tweak the angles, the different contraction you get from a dumbell v a machine, you should by now get where my view lies. The point is simple - In 20 years of training, those I have worked with have made giant leaps in progress training in a gym compared with people who train at home. You can train at home and get results, If you wish to go to another level join a gym.
On to the next debate......
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2007/07/19, 09:08 PM
This post did turn into a debate over working out at home vs the gym but my main goal was to seek advice on whether I am doing too much for each muscle group---Any assistance would be appreciated with regard to what I am doing now---my current upper body routines with each workout being done once per week:
Chest/Triceps: Seated "Home Gym" Presses: 4 x 25
Machine Flys: 3 x 15 (alter press w/ fly)
Incline dumbell fly and press: 2 x 10
Decline dumbell fly and press: 2 x 10
Tricep push down: 3-4 x 8-10
Reverse push down: 2 x 10
Overhead extensions: 3 x 8-10
Dumbell kickbacks: 3 x 8
Shoulders: SS 1: Lateral raises - Upright rows: 3 x 10-12
SS 2: Rear delt rows - Machine Press: 3 x 10-12
SS 3: Front raises - DB Arnold Press: 3 x 10
Back/Bis: Cable preach curls (mainly a warmup) 3 x 6-10
Hammer: 3 x 8-10
SS 1: Lat Pull down - EZ Curl 3 x 8-10
SS 2: Close grip Pull down - Seated rows 3 x 10
SS 3: Reverse EZ Curl - Bent rows 3 x 8-10
Cable straight arm pulldown: 3 x 10
Concentration curls drop set
I started supersetting a number of movements to keep the routines moving and have them to about an hour for the shoulders to 1 hour 15-20 minutes for the others. I take about 1 to 1.5 minutes between the SS. Any thoughts? My current goal is lean muscle gains, fat loss, and endurance. I'm not looking for huge mass. Thanks.
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2007/07/20, 05:15 PM
My view is simple....machines=waste of time...
Training to failure is counterproductive....for majority of the time...
People prefer machines in the gym because that's what the big gyms are pushing these days....machines are also nice and comfortable adn require about 1/10th the effort....at least the majority of machines...
giants leaps? you have got to be kidding me....I see same people in the gym...some who come for decades with little to show for their effort...why? because they have no clue in what they are doing....
get to the next level? you have got to be kidding me...I get dumber by the day watching the stupidity that occurs in my gym....it's an utter joke...if I had any room at home to put in a powerrack i would have done it years ago...
Steveski unless you're paraplegic....that's an aweful routine....where are the squats? deadlifts? as a beginner these are the exercises that will benefit you most.....seriously consider something basic like
Monday: Push
Standing Overhead Press 5x5
Bench Press 3x5
Dips 2x5
Wed: Legs
Squats 5x5
Lunges 3x5
Calf Raises 2x5
Fri: Pull
Deadlifts 5x5
Bent Over Rows 3x5
Chin Ups 2x5
setsxreps...2-3 min rest between sets..
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2007/07/21, 10:47 AM
Steveski - I think you are doing too much per part, you could cut out maybe one chest exercise (you probably don't need the decline flyes) and you are hitting your shoulders pretty hard. I would leave out the machine press and just do the db preses (arnold presses).
You could also choose either the clsoe grip pulldown or the seated row.
Your bi's and tris only need two exercises, especially when you have already hit them by working chest and back.
Think 3 exercises for big muscles (chest, back, shoulders) and 2 exercises for the smaller muscles (tri's bi's).
If you cut your workouts down a little, you could ad in some lower body work:) t really is important, not just for size, but for function and ability to perform daily activities as you age. If you don't have weight to use for leg exercises, you could do jump squats, and do lunges and deadlifts using jugs of water for now...
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Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak.
Thomas Carlyle
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2007/07/21, 02:30 PM
Think the post has been exhausted so on to the next one...appolgies for taking this post in another direction. The important thing is not to let personal preference get in the way and do everything we can to help the person who asked the question in the first place.
Good luck Steveski
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2007/07/21, 11:04 PM
Asimmer...just the kind of advice I was looking for. I have started a leg routine--extensions, curls, and inner/outer/back kick backs, weekly for the past three weeks. Thanks for the advice and I will cut out a few exercises as you suggested. I'll alternate the Arnold presses and machine presses every month or so to mix it up in my shoulder workout. Thanks for all your input. And thanks for taking the time baymaster and menace...
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2007/07/24, 06:58 AM
jesus cries when you dont do squats and deadlifts....alternatively devil kills little kittens every time someone does leg extensions....
all jokes aside...good luck with your training...
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