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2007/11/01, 10:39 PM
Just wondering if it is something bad, but I think my patella is shifting, or something inside my knee is popping when I do squats where I go even a little too far. I can go a little past ninety degrees, but if I drop too far, I get this pop, or this feeling like something is shifting. Is that bad? It doesn't hurt, but it is extremely disturbing.
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2007/11/02, 12:47 PM
Yes, this is bad, but not too bad. The cracking sound is that of your knee cap sliding around the surface of the joint because of weakend tendons and ligaments. DId you play a lot of baskerball growing up?
Like I said, this isn't too bad of a condition, and you can and should still train your legs, but don't go past the 90 deg. when you are squating. I wouldn't even get close to 90. Even though your condition isn't that bed, I'd still stay on the cautious side. I've heard doing the leg extension machine is helpful to your tendons on your knee.
Take care.
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2007/11/02, 02:08 PM
Isn't it supposed to be worse on the knees to stop short of parllel
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2007/11/02, 02:17 PM
First I would see a DR. If you are going to squat please do it with proper form and go below parallel. Personally I would stay away from the leg extensions as well.
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2007/11/02, 02:18 PM
*Parallel
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2007/11/02, 03:04 PM
If I could prevent one person from ever giving advice on this forum again, it would be you. In giving advice when you shouldn't, you are playing with other people's health.
Not only was there not a single correct statement in your post, but very little of what you wrote could even be considered an intelligent thought.
When it comes to the human body and possible injuries, a general rule is that if you don't know what is wrong or how to determine what is wrong, it is better to say nothing than to give advice like this.
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Quoting from justind123:
Yes, this is bad, but not too bad. The cracking sound is that of your knee cap sliding around the surface of the joint because of weakend tendons and ligaments. DId you play a lot of baskerball growing up?
Like I said, this isn't too bad of a condition, and you can and should still train your legs, but don't go past the 90 deg. when you are squating. I wouldn't even get close to 90. Even though your condition isn't that bed, I'd still stay on the cautious side. I've heard doing the leg extension machine is helpful to your tendons on your knee.
Take care.
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If it is something you are worried about, you should see a PT, who should perform a shelf test along with a hip mobiliy and posture examination.
Also make sure you are keeping your knees out (keep them from caving in).
My other advice would be to start doing terminal knee extensions (google them) as a warm up before you squat. A weak VMO is common in many women, and is sometimes cited as one of the possible causes (along with hamstring-quad imbalance) of the increased risk of ACL injuries.
And finally, it might be worth doing box squats. A 12-14 inch box will work for most of the population. See if this alleviates the issue. If it does, then you most likely shouldn't worry.
Also remember that without seeing you, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell you that it is "bad" or "not too bad". If it is something you are worried about, then see a licensed pt or ortho.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/11/02, 07:01 PM
They don't pop when I do a wide stance squat. Just a close stance. Maybe I'm too close?
To clarify, btw, my knees aren't actually 'cracking'. It just feels like something is shifting over something inside them.
And as for me playing basketball.... I'm 5'4, near-sighted, and have depth perception problems because one eye has a different prescription than the other. No basketball for me.
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2007/11/03, 08:33 AM
Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
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2007/11/03, 09:33 AM
Justind123 there will be no name calling! Playnice
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As a quarter squatter was dominating the rack, I heard a conversation between an old powerlifter (easily in his 60\\'s) and what I would guess was his grandson (15-yrs old):
Kid: \\"So, why does he stop so short on his squats? That looks weird to me.\\"
Old PL\\'er: \\"He\\'s afraid if he squats deep, his vagina might touch the ground.\\"
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/11/03, 09:37 AM
My knees do this too, and when I went to PT they said I had crooked kneecaps that were too far to the inside of my legs. This happened because I have fallen arches and my inner thigh muscle is really weak by my knees while the rest of my leg is strong and overly tight. Defininately make sure your knees don't fall in though, that was my biggest problem. I would go get it checked out just to make sure everything is okay though so you don't wind up not getting the problem fixed if there actually is one.
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2007/11/03, 10:39 AM
As far as offering advice on specific injuries or conditions, id bigtime agree with wrestler on this one. Though lending a voice to the community snd trying to share the knowledge or lack of is what this site is based on, and for the most part it works very well.
Ill admit, im the 1st one that will google or wikipedia something in order to try and help someone out, mainly cause im a great guy and that i love to learn new stuff but i let the real pro's here answer the hard and serious questions, like amy or BB1 or wrestler, all very smart and knowledgeable in their area's...
Anyways, hiya jessica, hows sis doing ? sent her my :love: ok ??
AND my ankles crack when going upstairs and on the treadmill, any insight on that wrestler, it doesnt hurt, just feels wicked weird...
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I was bruised and battered and I couldnt tell
what I felt
I was unrecognizable to myself
Saw my reflection in a window I didnt know
my own face ...
Get busy living or get busy dying.
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2007/11/03, 10:42 AM
Oh, come on now, it was funny.... :)
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2007/11/03, 11:05 AM
Wrestler right on. I was shaking my head at justin's advice. there's no shame in not knowing something but please dont give advice out of ignorance that could potentially injure someone.
Go see a doctor specializing in sports/athletes as well as PT who also specializes in sports/athletes. This could be a whole number of possible conditions which can range from harmless to potentially chronic degenerating conditions...
I would try to push out your knees as much as you can while sitting BACK...this has helped me squat with a knee injury. I can drop to about 2-3 inches below parallel without any uncomfortable knee sensation(with a fully torn lateral meniscus)
ATG squats are the safest by far form of squats for a healthy person. If there's some medical condition then that's another story.
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2007/11/03, 11:15 AM
If menace can do it, anyone can...:-P
sitting back and keeping the knees out are exactly why I recommended box squats.
Bill: The problem with something like that is the symptoms are way too vague for me to have any idea. Most likely it is just an abundance of synovial fluid. Not much you can do here, although there have been studies that show cracking joints can be a possible indicator (not cause) to future arthritic sites. However you are doing everything to prevent it right (exercising, eating right) so I wouldn't let that worry you. Overall most of the studies are inconclusive.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/11/03, 11:36 AM
highly recommend these for joint health
#1 Glucosamine/Chondroitin
#2 Hyaluronic Acid
#3 Cissus
Potentially helpful
#4 MSM
#5 Fish Oil-this one is a general supplement that should be part of most people stacks aside from joint health..
#6 Celadrin
My knees have only gotten stronger from squatting. Working on Pistols now. I am able to do few atg right leg but still ways off left...can do assisted parallel.......
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2007/11/03, 03:20 PM
============
Quoting from bill06:
Anyways, hiya jessica, hows sis doing ? sent her my :love: ok ??
=============
Hi Bill!
My sister's doing GREAT, thanks! She comes home the 13th, and after 7 weeks of not having her here, it will be great to finally have her back!
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2007/11/03, 03:49 PM
Random thought, but synovial fluid just sounds gross.
So, essentially, I should make sure I don't lean forward, and keep my legs from bowing inward? Did I get that right?
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2007/11/03, 04:46 PM
You're going to lean forward, but you want your hips to go back further. Basically start bending at the hips before you unbend your knees, and keep sitting backwards.
Check out the powerlifting forum and try to find one of the posts on box squatting.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/11/03, 08:32 PM
So, basically..... I stick my butt out more?
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2007/11/03, 08:43 PM
I just read an article from that poliquin guy y'all professional people are always talking about, and it says something about box squats only having an application in powerlifting.... which makes sense for you to suggest them, wrestler.
Maybe I should just do wide stance squats. My knees don't pop with those. Or just lunges. No popping then either. Just a happy little burn.
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2007/11/03, 11:21 PM
Thanks wrestler, one thing ive noticed since taking some fish oil and flax, that the clicking have all but gone from ankles and jaw bones and they feel " smoother " during movements that used to not really hurt, but grind almost ? 8 years of football have taking its toll on my ankles and hips, knees are good but other joints somedays, specially on real cold and raw days, really ache, probably heading towards athritis of some kind but thats why ive been racking up the hours in the gym. Thanks..:dumbbell:
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I was bruised and battered and I couldnt tell
what I felt
I was unrecognizable to myself
Saw my reflection in a window I didnt know
my own face ...
Get busy living or get busy dying.
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2007/11/04, 01:34 AM
Poliquin says that, but most of the successful coaches in the world still use them. While I can see where he is coming from with athletes that 1. already know how to squat and 2. only have a limited time for preparation, I disagree that that is their only application.
1. The teach squat form easily.
2. Build explosion from the hole.
3. Are easier to recover from.
4. Place less stress on the knees.
5. Put the focus on the glutes and hamstrings.
6. I could probably go on for a few more numbers, but you get the idea.
Poliquin goes on to say that because the knee's don't come forward, they aren't applicable to sports in which the knee does come forward. If we were trying to get "sport specific" in the weight room (which we aren't) then why would we squat in the first place? What sport are we using both legs equally at the same time? His logic doesn't hold true in this particular instance.
You are not a powerlifter, and are not an athlete. Therefor, you are looking for a movement that takes the tension off the knee and allows for proper form. Box squats accomplish this.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/11/04, 01:40 AM
Here's another take on the box squat debate:http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask_joe/archives/ask_joe_06-12-15.htm
Powerlifting coaches instruct the hips going back first, olympic coaches hips first but almost the same time, charlie francis says the knees break first (but I guess when your athletes are famous for doping, then you can squat however you want).
The point is, pick what is optimal for your goals, and what will work for you in the long run.
If you're still interested in this, we discussed it when that poliquin article first came out in the powerlifting forum. Might be worth looking up.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/11/04, 02:26 PM
Why does the box squat take pressure off the knee? I googled the question, but there doesn't seem to be a really good answer. I read a response on another form about squatting with your hips and not your knees, but it didn't explain it.
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2007/11/04, 06:25 PM
My advice:
-Take a shoulder wide stance or bit wider
-Point toes out at 45 degrees(this will allow you to have more flexibility at the hips...ie go lower)
-Stick butt back and push out with the knees....now at the same time start descending....keep going back with the butt as much as you can(you'll feel a stretch when you hit the limit)
-Keep going down until you're fairly low(ATG is good but couple inches past parallel works fine too...esp if you're using wider stances)
-Come out of the hole head first and press back on the bar
-Push knees out and squeeze glutes as hard as you can...
hip stretches/mobility drills are good also...
I LOVE box squats...I do front, back, zercher, overhead...they are all awesome...
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2007/11/05, 12:02 AM
The box squat takes pressure off the knee because it allows you to sit back more. However, the expense of this is that the pressure is transfered to the back (which is much better at accepting stress than the knee).
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2008/04/09, 11:10 PM
Ok, this is my first day here, and I already have a question. Regarding squats, lunges, basically anything involving bearing weight on my right knee while bending it...anytime I do that, I can audibly hear the bones in my knee cracking and popping, and I can also feel them moving around. Is there a way I can do squats and lunges and stuff like that where it wont hurt my knee? And any vitamins/minerals I could take that will help?
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2008/04/10, 08:34 AM
So it pops AND it hurts, or are they mutually exlusive?
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