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2005/08/04, 02:54 PM
Hi bb1fit, been a long time. Great post by the way! Question, what's your take on this new "calcium" craze everyone (mostly the diary industry) is pushing as a method of fat burning? I think there is some merit to it however, there's a point where too much can be damaging I think. I remember as a kid drinking whole milk by the gallons and I was skinny as a rail. lol
Where does calcium come into the formula and what are your recommendations on it? Thanks!:)
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2005/08/05, 11:03 AM
Calcium has a benefit in not only physical, but structural well being(bones). I believe there may be some validity to the weight loss claims being made, but again, this must be taken in context. If a source of calcium intake through calories such as milk, yogurt, etc. is acheived, it is most probably done by depriving caloric intake elsewhere.
No matter how good a "food" is for you, such as you mention milk, there are calories involved. Calories when dieting are all important. If you exceed your limits on any consistent basis, the body does not care that it is "good" for you, you will not lose weight.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/07, 05:43 PM
Ok, as I mentioned 2 posts above, daily intake of carbs should be at least 100 gr. per day. thhis amt. will increase levels of thyroid hormone, this is critical to resetting metabolic rate. this by the way is not alot, for those it may scare, if you think about it, most folks probably eat 100 gr. of carbs at a single meal.
Now, you can move up to maintenance without counting calories in any way, but there is a danger here. I mentioned earlier that folks have a tendency to not realize portion sizes, caloric intake is usually mentally off by as much as 50%. Just as they tend to overestimate activity levels. So, if you are going to approach maintenance in this manner, some eating "rules" will help.
Regularly monitoring your weight or bodyfat is crucial. If not this, then something like how the same shirt feels you wore last week, pants getting tighter, or use a hip to bicep ratio, anything that keeps you in check.
Be very careful of spontaneous caloric intake. This is a killer to everyone. this is basically the caloric intake one takes in "between" meals, this normally is for sure a downfall for folks who do not count calories in some way.
People tend to think reducing fat intake(thanks to the media complex) they end up eating fewer calories and lose weight. First off, a diet without fats is usually a pretty tasteless one. And maybe even more importantly, if deprived of good fats, folks tend to overeat more of the so called "good for you" low fat crap with added fillers and calories to make up for the fat. I guess many of us remember Snackwells for instance? Another giant problem is decreasing fat intake does in no way blunt hunger or alter caloric intake.
Now we come to high protein. It just so happens protein has the largest effect on blunting hunger, it makes it easier to eat less! Now carbs....for folks who do not handle carbs well, and you probably know who you are(usually insulin resistant), higher carb intakes will spike and crash blood glucose, which leaves a feeling of lethargy and guess what....hunger for more.
So, altering your food intake is crucial(your old eating habits). At least one study shows that diets higher in protein (25% as opposed to 12%) had an interesting effect. The higher protein group automatically ate less, and thus lost weight.
Ok, some rules as mentioned...pretty basic, but need to be adhered to.
A)Eat more frequently(your caloric intake will be naturally reduced, and this will better keep hunger under control)
B)Plenty of lean protein
C)Moderate amount of fat(each meal)
D)Plenty of fiber from fruits, veggies, unrefined carbs(beans, oats, etc.)
E)MODERATE amounts of refined carbs(breads, pastas, rice)
F)Eat slower(your brain does not get the signal for approximately 20 min. that calories are being intaken. So, the slower you eat, the less you will intake.(for gaining, do the opposite)
G)For your mental state, continue to utilize a "free meal" each week. Make it fun, something you really crave, but in sensible portions with lean protein as part.
H)Exercise
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/08, 08:42 AM
Thanks again for the great thread, Ron!:)
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Nurture your mind with great thoughts, for you will never go any higher than you think.
Benjamin Disraeli
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2005/08/09, 11:49 AM
Glad someone is benefitting from it. Pleased to help.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/09, 01:59 PM
Hey Ron, I'm planning on using your info to start my 8 week diet in September and I want to make sure I fully understand what your saying. I understand the higher protien and healthy fats and have already incorporated this into my daily eating, but I'm still unsure on what your recommending as far as carbs go. I think your suggesting a very low carb intake, primarily from veggies 6 out of 7 days/week. I also gather that you're suggesting only eating unrefined carbs on the "free" day. Could you elaborate a bit more on carb intake during the fat loss stage. I tend to eat things like whole wheat tortillas and whole wheat pasta 1X per day, should I cut this out and save it for my "free" day?
Thanks again for this great thread!
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Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.
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2005/08/10, 11:20 AM
Yes, I would have them on my free day. It will be like a treat. The whole purpose of this diet is rapid fat loss. If you vary from it with other things, though healthy and good for you, it will simply skew the results. You want a quick hit so to speak with this diet and get off. It is not meant long term, though not unhealthy in any way, it is rather unfeasable for someone to stick to as a way of life!
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/10, 11:47 AM
So this means I can eat unrefined carbs such as oatmeal, legumes etc, during the fat loss stage, or should I cut those as well?
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2005/08/11, 07:40 AM
good questions.. I need the same info!! I will check back to see the answers! I LOVE the whole wheat tortillas with eggs inside.. lets not forget the sharp chedder cheese! I suppose that is cheating too! Lisa
is brown rice ok during the week also?
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If you are tired of your life, your body, yourSELF.. CHANGE IT!
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2005/08/11, 09:02 AM
No, none of those things are fine. If you alter something to fit your wants and needs, it alters results. This diet is strictly protein, fibrous veggies(basically unlimited amounts), and fats(EFA's).
Again, it is meant to be a quick hitter, to jump start fat loss again if you are stagnant for instance, 6-8 weeks. You can of course go longer, but a break back to maintenance after about that time period is ideal to reset metabolism, thyroid hormone, etc.
Again, whole wheat tortilla's, brown rice, etc. are all good food and healthy, but do not fit the confines of this diet scheme. Use them on your free meals only.
It is not the easiest thing to do, but if you think about it, 6-8 weeks is going to pass anyway, you would look back and think, dam, if only I had stayed with it now where would I be. This is actually a very short time in the context of life to acheive a goal.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/11, 09:43 AM
That was the info I was looking for, I guess I'm having a hard time getting my head around no carbs except fibrous veggies. But it is only 8 weeks, so I'm going to give it a go starting in Sept.
Thanks for your patience!
Thanks for your patience Ron:)
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2005/08/11, 09:57 AM
Ron thanks for all this info and all your hard work.It certainly is making it easier for me to get my head around some things I was confused about .
Caroline
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2005/08/11, 12:54 PM
Glad to help.....as I mentioned, as with anything, if we start to twist things around to fit "your personal likes and dislikes or needs", then before you know it you are basically doing what you were before that did not work! This will work.
I SHOULD NOTE HERE IF YOU ARE ATHELETIC AT ALL, SUCH AS CURRENTLY DOING WIEIGHTS AND CARDIO, UP THE PROTEIN TO 1.5-2 GR. PER LB. OF LBM. iF YOU ARE DOING JUST CARDIO/AEROBICS, ONLY RAISE IT TO 1.25-1.5 GR.
Now this above is meant for folks who really hit the gym on a consistent basis.
I never mentioned this, as the thread has centered around folks not doing anything.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/11, 02:49 PM
I hate to say this but I'm still a bit confused. How do you reach a adequate daily caloric intake eating 1.5g protien /lb of LBM and fibrous veggies.
If I work out my protien intake at 1.5g/LBM then I should take in aprox. 175g protien (23%BF at 155lbs so 116LBM X 1.5g = 175g protien) If I was to eat only chicken breast as my source of protien-just an easy example- then I'd need about 6 breasts/day-30g protien each or 180g/day-which equals about 800 calories.
If the only other major food source is fibrous veggies which have very few calories, I don't know how I'd get up to 1500-1800 cals per day? Do you make up some of the difference with fats i.e. peanut butter and other nuts? What am I missing here:surprised:
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2005/08/12, 12:15 PM
EFA's will account for a good amount of calories. 1 tbsp. of flax for instance is 10 gr. of fats, 100 calories. 200 calories would be ideal. This dieting method is for someone who has been dieting, and is already low on calories. You would fit in, as you would end up with 1200 or so, and this would create a 300-400 calorie deficit.
You would have minimum 2 cups veggies with each meal. Add in your post workout shake, and you should easily have plenty of food. If you are eating 1500 to 1800 per day now, why would you want to do the same? You are not losing, or you would not be looking into this diet. A deficit is in order for you.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/12, 02:24 PM
Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me! I've gotten very efficient at maintaining my weight, I think this is what I'll need to shock it back into a fat loss mode. I better go out and stock up on veggies:)
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2005/08/13, 08:13 PM
Yep, Lyle knows his stuff! He is the man.:)
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/15, 08:48 PM
are you going to continue this thread Ron ? or start a new one ? I for one have found it very helful.
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2005/08/16, 10:20 AM
Thought I would start a more conventional dieting thread, to help those just beginning get started on the right track.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/16, 10:22 AM
where ya starting it, or is this it?
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2005/08/16, 11:25 AM
No, it will be in the same section here, but a thread all its own. I will probably just title it diet thread 2.
I thought I might get into the ways to approach dieting from scratch, habits to change, outlooks, how to craft your calorie needs, macro ratios, etc.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/16, 11:11 PM
AWESOME! dieting is my biggest problem!!
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2005/08/19, 08:49 PM
bump....
why isn't this a sticky anymore?
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2005/08/20, 03:13 AM
BB1FIT:
"DIET 2" WHENS IT COMMING?:dumbbell:
:)
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2005/08/20, 03:13 AM
YAY!!! YAY!!!
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2005/08/28, 05:51 PM
Haven't been here in a while and I'm a bit disapointed that there hasn't been any update in this thread.
DX
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2005/08/28, 09:40 PM
It is a very time cosuming process, almost like writing a bood in posts. Have been busy, lucky to answer folks' posts at this point. Long hours at work.
Vacation coming up this week, heading out of town, so will not be on for a couple weeks starting Friday. (much needed and deserved vacation too I must add) :)
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Quoting from DX14AG:
Haven't been here in a while and I'm a bit disapointed that there hasn't been any update in this thread.
DX
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2006/01/15, 05:36 PM
bump
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2006/01/23, 06:34 AM
Bump
I agree this needs to be on top of the pile.
Might be time for a second chapter though bb1.
Take it from me folks, I let bb1 turn me into a guinea pig for a few months and he did more in that short time than I've been able to do in my life up to that point. This info is gold.
And the insane thing is...it's only half of what you need to succeed.
You will always have my full attention bb1.
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Seize the day!
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2006/02/09, 12:18 PM
BB1 thank you so much for all the info. I'm going to go stock up tomorrow and give this a try.
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2006/02/09, 12:42 PM
There is about a 2 week period before your body adjusts...this may shed some light...
When only protein is consumed, nitrogen balances are less negative than during total food deprivation. Nitrogen balance can be approached even while the energy balance remains markedly negative, but substantially higher protein intakes are required. This situation is commonly encountered during a 'protein-sparing modified fast', where, after one week of adaptation, a dose of 1.5 g protein/kg body weight/d is generally sufficient to maintain N balance (LINDNER and BLACKBURN).
Add in your fats and loads of fibrous veggies, and you have a recipe for rapid fat loss.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/02/09, 01:56 PM
Thanks for that info. I'll try it for a month first to see how it works for me. I have my grocery list done and I went and got the carb breakdown on a bunch of the foods!
I've been trying so hard to drop this weight and it's frustrating when you don't see it coming off.
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2006/02/11, 10:29 AM
Ok..that's weird..I asked that question and it came up as Null...what the heck did I do..lol
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2006/02/11, 10:47 AM
It will depend a bit on your current intake. you don't want to radically increase or decrease your caloric intake - your body won't see it as a change but a crisis temporarily and it will stall weight loss or store fat. Does that make sense?
A general rule for weight loss is 11 calories per pound of desired weight or per pound of lean mass. So, around 1900 calories for your lean mass, then subtract about 200 calories for weight loss - 1700 calories a day may be a good starting point to try for a few weeks. Again - this will depend on your current intake - if you have been eating a lot more or less than that then you don't want to jump to that amount. If you have been eating close to that amount, just changing the ratios of protein/carbohydrates/fat may yield nice results. Eating more lean protein, less processed foods,more fibrous carbs, more water, good fats instead of trans/saturated, yet with the same caloric intake as before will often start the process off.
I hope this all makes sense!
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Never, never, never, never give up.
- Winston Churchill
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2006/02/11, 12:23 PM
Yes it makes perfeccccccct sense. I have been going to a weight loss group(not sure if we can mention names in here) and my daily intake has been around 1500 lbs but the scales just stopped moving. I am going to stick with the same amount but I'm going to play with the ratio's as you suggested by adding more protein and less carbs. I also have added fish oils to my diet. My weigh in day is Wednesday evening so I'll give it a week from this Wednesday to see if any results show. If they don't I'll keep it up for another week as I realize there is an adjustment period for the change.
You guys are the best!!!!:)
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2006/02/12, 06:36 PM
Your body composition with adequate training included can change dramatically with a protein/fat diet. The carb load is something you can do if you want....many folks are scared of it, but it will not hurt you and will help.
The carbs at that stage of the game, (glycogen depleted) will not go to fat. Here is a good study...good read(read after glycogen depletion).
Am J Clin Nutr. 1988 Aug;48(2):240-7. Related Articles, Links
Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man.
Acheson KJ, Schutz Y, Bessard T, Anantharaman K, Flatt JP, Jequier E.
Institute of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Lausanne, Switzerland.
The metabolic balance method was performed on three men to investigate the fate of large excesses of carbohydrate. Glycogen stores, which were first depleted by diet (3 d, 8.35 +/- 0.27 MJ decreasing to 5.70 +/- 1.03 MJ , 15% protein, 75% fat, 10% carbohydrate) and exercise, were repleted during 7 d carbohydrate overfeeding (11% protein, 3% fat, and 86% carbohydrate) providing 15.25 +/- 1.10 MJ (3642 +/- 263 kcal) on the first day, increasing progressively to 20.64 +/- 1.30 MJ (4930 +/- 311 kcal) on the last day of overfeeding. Glycogen depletion was again accomplished with 2 d of carbohydrate restriction (2.52 MJ/d , 85% protein, and 15% fat). Glycogen storage capacity in man is approximately 15 g/kg body weight and can accommodate a gain of approximately 500 g before net lipid synthesis contributes to increasing body fat mass. When the glycogen stores are saturated, massive intakes of carbohydrate are disposed of by high carbohydrate-oxidation rates and substantial de novo lipid synthesis (150 g lipid/d using approximately 475 g CHO/d) without postabsorptive hyperglycemia.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/02/13, 02:26 PM
Thanks for the article. So far things are going good. I don't feel hungry at all. Total opposite actually and I've started the exercise plan too. I'll come back and let you guys know how I'm progressing.
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2006/02/13, 09:11 PM
Yeah, protein can be satiating. Most studies that show high protein diets work is for a reason, eating more protein tends to by default at least make one eat less processed crap that is always calorie dense. Thus less calories.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/02/20, 04:44 PM
Thank you so much for all this great information and all the time you spend on providing it for all of us. :)
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\"One Ring to rule them all; One Ring to find them; One Ring to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them.\" -LOTR Trilogy
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2006/02/21, 01:45 PM
Just a quick question...what if I don't get in 100G of Carbs a day? My other half was nice enough to give me his cold and getting food down is a big issue the past 2 days. I'm doing good with the protein..thank god for the whey shakes. My carbs today are only at 49G's. And I've all ready calcuated what I'm going to have for my supper in there.
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2006/02/21, 02:32 PM
Ignore my question...I found the answer. And I added some more carbs...I have one kind of protein shake here that's got more carbs then the other so I'm switching them around. I don't need my metabolism to go any slower then it is right now!!!! If I can't eat those carbs..I'll drink them!
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2006/02/26, 10:21 AM
Fantastic articles..thanks so much!
I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia a year ago and it didnt occur to me until at least 5 months ago that it was my crappy eating that was contributing to it..Since then I have cut out refined sugars(as much as I can)bad fats and taken on a diet of lean proteins/carbs/good fat.
I eat 5-6 small meals a day with the inclusion of the above..initially I dropped 10lbs but have gained back 4.I have trouble believing that all my cardio/weight training is responsible for a 4lb gain in such a short time(4 weeks)
I did take a day off on Sat...still made good choices overall but had a treat too.I have to say the weigh in today,frustrated the heck outta me..and Iam just not getting it..
I do understand what you mean,by an overall loss,months from now is more important than an immediate week to week loss(is that correct)My blood sugars are stable now,thank god!.
PS-You know when they say women dont "bulk" when lifting? well guess what..Iam an exception to that rule..I do bulk,especially in the shoulders/leg area.
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2006/02/26, 01:12 PM
You would have to have higher than normal test levels for alot of muscle to be built. You probably "bulk" from just calories in the shoulder area, and legs are normal for a woman, and mistake it for muscle.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/02/28, 06:16 PM
Bravo! Great read! I'm sorry but what sorts of veggies are loaded with fibre? I'm really looking into the ones that can be eaten raw but I could probably get around to cooking some. I'm sorry I'm really just trying to get started here. Also when u say have a minimum of 2 cups of veggies, do you mean with around 6 meals a day or 3? Thankyou for any responses!
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2006/02/28, 11:38 PM
Fibrous veggies are ones such as those listed in the grocery list for healthy eating:
Green leafy lettuce(Green, Red, Romaine)
Broccoli
Asparagus
String Beans
Spinach
Bell Peppers
Brussel Sprouts
Cauliflower
Cabbage
Celery
Cucumber
Eggplant
Green or Red Pepper
Onions
Pumpkin
Garlic
Tomatoes
Zuchini
And if I remember correctly you can have as much as you like of these.
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Seize the day!
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2006/03/01, 11:49 AM
Ah i see! sorry for making ya type that mojo, but its much appreciated, i'll be sure to read the other stickied threads more carefully. I gotta get started with those veggies!Taking it slow and starting with lettuce at my next meal.
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2006/03/04, 01:17 PM
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c201o.html This is a website that gives you the nutrient values of foods and also helps you find a healthier solution to a certain food.
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2006/03/04, 09:28 PM
You have to be careful being hypoglycemic. When blood glucose begins to fall, glucagon signals the liver to break down glycogen and release glucose, causing blood glucose levels to rise toward a normal level.
If diabetes come into play, the body will have a resistance to deplete liver glycogen.
Be careful...
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Quoting from mysticgraces:
Fantastic articles..thanks so much!
I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia a year ago and it didnt occur to me until at least 5 months ago that it was my crappy eating that was contributing to it..Since then I have cut out refined sugars(as much as I can)bad fats and taken on a diet of lean proteins/carbs/good fat.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/03/06, 07:42 AM
I just read this article - I thought it was pretty basic, but there are some kind of cool calculators built into it - check it out:
http://www.hrfit.net/bb/training/articles/article11.asp
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Never, never, never, never give up.
- Winston Churchill
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2006/04/16, 07:22 PM
i know this thread is already old but i wanna say that it is very great and informative. being a beginner and has no idea of some of these things, this is the info that i've been looking for. maybe you should post this in the newbie section so those newbies can check this out coz most doesn't still know how to navigate this site. me, i was seriously browsing the boards to read interesting and informative thread to help me start with and thank God i found this one. thanks a lot.
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Diet thread
