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2006/09/16, 01:45 PM
From what I gather, the prevailing opinion is more and more becoming that compound exercises are best for overall mass. And Isolation's are mainly for cutting. Is this a correct assumption?
1) Therefore, are 3 or 4 variations of bench in one workout enough for tricep development, without any iso's? Same thing with back. Say I do chin ups, and maybe a couple different kinds of rows, say 3 sets of 8. Is this enough for the biceps to gain mass also, without the iso's for it either.
I just wanted to clarify. Seems like I had been told that this is correct, but it seems that my workouts would become very short. 30 minutes or so.
2) If this is correct, can I still add in say 1 iso for good measure, or would this hinder the process of gaining overall mass? And if I did, should I do that particular iso on the same day, or 3 or 4 days later? This is another thing that seems to be debated. Not necessarily here, but in my circle of friends.
Thanks alot for any thoughts or info. :dumbbell:
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2006/09/16, 02:07 PM
WEll, herein lies the crux of the matter. For the most part, true, compound exercises are best for overall mass. Some folks for instance do not do arms they say at all. Well, you have to do what works for you. I would say my arms would not be near what they are if I did not work them directly. Now, it is the amount that matters. If you for instance are doing back, you are using a high amount of bicep. (all back movements are pulling type exercises). So, if you turn around an bomb your biceps with heavy volume, chances are you are overdoing it.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/16, 02:34 PM
I see.
So if I added one bicep iso on my back day at the end of my workout, it would be ok. But hammering my biceps should be done 2 or 3 days later?
I know a week later would be ideal, but in the past I've made phenomenal gains working a muscle group 2 or even 3 times a week. I was adding 10 lbs to my workout weight every 7 - 10 days, and seeing great results in the mirror as well.
By the way, I use creatine, and take in plenty of preotein as well, if this helps the assessment any. I have the advantage of working in a meat market, and pretty much get first dibs on any chicken going out of date. We reduce it to half price and I bring it home and either cook it, or freeze it.
Anyway, would the above approach be ok?
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2006/09/16, 03:25 PM
Also what are your goals? To be a powerlifter, or bodybuilder? Answer that first as it entails a different approach to what kind and or style of lifting you choose.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/09/16, 04:32 PM
according to his profile he just wants to put on some mass...not look sculptured,like a statue.
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2006/09/16, 05:54 PM
See, you basically answered your own question. Remember in my post when I stated that 'you need to do what works for you'. You then state in your post here that you had phoneminal gains(not just good gains) working a muscle group twice per week. Obviously, this works well for you. Why change? I by the way am a big fan of working a muscle twice per week. Optimal in my book.
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Quoting from brandon7:
I see.
So if I added one bicep iso on my back day at the end of my workout, it would be ok. But hammering my biceps should be done 2 or 3 days later?
I know a week later would be ideal, but in the past I've made phenomenal gains working a muscle group 2 or even 3 times a week. I was adding 10 lbs to my workout weight every 7 - 10 days, and seeing great results in the mirror as well.
By the way, I use creatine, and take in plenty of preotein as well, if this helps the assessment any. I have the advantage of working in a meat market, and pretty much get first dibs on any chicken going out of date. We reduce it to half price and I bring it home and either cook it, or freeze it.
Anyway, would the above approach be ok?
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/16, 07:52 PM
The main concern was because I was worried that maybe I could get "more phenomenal" results from resting more.
When I was working the same group 2 and 3 times a week, basicly I didn't know any better. And to be honest, sometimes I worked the same group 4 or 5 times a week, but that wasn't the norm.
That was before I joined this site and read about how it is widely considered overtraining to work a group more than once a week. I guess I began second guessing my routine, even though it was working very well.
Anyway, that was the reasoning behind my concern.
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I was still wondering if 1 iso after 2 or 3 compound exercises would be ok, then as I said, kill that secondary muscle a couple days later with iso's. Is that too much?
Thanks for all the help fit. I really appreciate it.
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2006/09/16, 08:05 PM
Definatly not a body builder. Not a powerlifter either if you're talking about competion. I just want to take advantage of my large size and natural frame (wide muscular shoulders, broad chest, big arms.)
I have people ask me all the time how often I work out, and the answer is always "oh, about 1 month out of the year". And that's the truth. I'm not trying to brag, but my body has so much potential, and I don't take advantage of it. A few years ago, I stayed with it for 6 months, and stopped, basicly because I ran out of room on my bar with the sand weights I was using. I was maxing a hair over 300. (Bench). I no longer have those wieghts, but some of you may remember me posting a while back about the weider home gym I bought, and how I wished I had bought a few free weights instead. I'm already working out with all of the resistance on bench, which is about 250. Luckily when I bought it I also bought the extra 100 lb resistance bar. It's one of those machines kinda like a bowflex. Cables that allow full, independent, free range of motion, much like free weights.
Anyway I really want to stick with it this time, sorry for going off on that rant.
But again, to answer your question, I'm not looking to cut up or anything. Just big, muscular and solid. Kinda like you mutt. :big_smile:
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Quoting from 7707mutt:
Also what are your goals? To be a powerlifter, or bodybuilder? Answer that first as it entails a different approach to what kind and or style of lifting you choose.
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2006/09/16, 09:11 PM
Yes, I like to train with one isolation move after a compound movement. I began my training in a power lifting environment, so it is still my basis of training.
For instance, on shoulders. I will do my sets of military presses as heavy as possible, the follow up with 2 sets or medial delt and 2 sets of shrugs, and one set of rear delts. I do this because bodybuilding is my goal, but strength is equally as much a goal.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/09/17, 07:26 AM
Great, that's what I wanted to here. To me, I just don't feel completely spent with compounds only. Even though bodybuilding isn't really what I'm after here, I obviously want to look good too. Just not all cut up.
I guess you could say strength is what I want, but I also want it to show, if that makes any sense. :)
Thanks fit.
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2006/09/17, 07:33 AM
Now that I think about it, this may be a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I'm assuming though that there is a sort of... happy medium between both bodybuilding and just strength. From what I know, bodybuilding isn't really about strength. I mean, you are probably far stonger than the average person, don't get me wrong. But if you just wanted pure strength, you would probably look much different, correct?
Sorry, I know I keep asking what are probably common knowledge questions. :(
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2006/09/17, 11:38 AM
btw you can not "cut" a muscle with isolation lifts....no more so than doing 1000's of crunches will get you a six pack.
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/09/17, 12:07 PM
BA is right on. The isolation moves are simply to make sure of full developement of the area.
Adding a lot of isolation moves, in the form of supersets, drop sets, etc. is very useful when cutting though, but it is not due to the actual muscle definition. It is due to increased caloric expenditure....i.e...adding to your diet.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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