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2005/08/19, 10:07 PM
Why do they say that machines limit ur mass growth more than freeweights? What makes them so gosh darn special?
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2005/08/19, 10:20 PM
Machines don't necessarily limit your growth but they don't don't allow the use of stabilizer muscles the way free weights demand. Depending on what's available to you, in my opinion for the average person, the best approach is a mixture of both. You won't be in competition shape but you can do some amazing things.
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Mike
in Pensacola Now.
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2005/08/19, 10:45 PM
Whats are stabilizer muscles and why are those important
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2005/08/19, 10:59 PM
Great question!!! I am glad you wanted to know not just what they are, but why they are important.
Try benching in a smith machine. Hold the weight at lockout. Now, do the same thing with freeweights, preferably dumbbells. Feel the weights sort of swaying? The stabilizer muscles are all those muscles other than the prime movers that are responsible for keeping the weight from swaying off to one side. They are important, because not only do they have the ability to hypertrophy just like any other muscles, but for athletic performance and safety.
In sports, nothing is perfectly stable, and nothing is only 2-dimensional. However, by working with machines, you are working in only one plane of devolopment, up and down. When are you locked down like that in any sort of sport???
Also, if your stabilizers aren't strong enough to hold the load that you are working out with, you may be much more prone to injury, especially muscle tears.
By using free weights you use more muscle to move the weight. Therefor, it is simple to deduct, that by using freeweights, you will build more muscle. I do believe that IN SOME CASES it may be best to supplement with machines, but that all depends on your goals. As my goals are athletic performance in MMA, I personal don't work with machines, but for most people, they are easy to learn provide variety to a workout.
Just stay away from smith machine squats.
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The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
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2005/08/20, 08:59 AM
On the same subject, I have only used a machine for 3yrs, on some exercises I have had to raise my reps to 23/23/23 23/23/23 23/23/23 on benchpress for example. tomorrow I finally buy freeweight set and a rack. I am expecting that my max weight is going to be *way lower* when I do my 1st benchpress with freeweights. Any tips? I'm already nervous about seening that amount of weight above my head.. lol, it just looks like more on a bar than on a stack I guess since I'm not used to it. I'll post my experience when I start using the weights next week.
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2005/08/20, 10:56 AM
I would start with a light warm up set, you will notice the difference right away. Then pyramid up carefully, you will find you will not be able to do near what the "stack" weight is on your machines.
Try to have a spotter around if you can for maximum saftey.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/20, 04:08 PM
Yeah, if you've never done freeweight bench, defianetly have a spotter, because the weights will fill really awkward. Don't try to max out right away, get used to the weights first.
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The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
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2005/08/20, 07:11 PM
Wait about 2 weeks....let yoru nervious system and muscles adapt. Rush it and you will get hurt.
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
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2005/08/20, 07:23 PM
Also.....this wasn't addresed.....most machines limit the range of motion....for certain individuals this can cause pain, or discomfrot. IT may be more than your used to or shorter than your used too( range of motion that is).
Also machines use levers ,pullys and cables.....this doesn't alow for "true weight".......look at a crane....notice all the pullies.....that why a 25 ton crane can pick up over 50tons.
However machines(cables namly) have an advantage....
1. The control the movment, so you can target that muscle better.
2. they allow for constant tension. You have weight equally, on the upward phase as well as the downward phase....
3. "Safer" don't need a spot on machines, weightstacks, stands are designed, if you get stuck you can still get out from under it.
The goal for most is recruit the most muscle fibers, and get the most out of it. Freeweights....dumbells especially, allow the muscle to stretch more, and get a better range of motion. There by "hiting" more muscle fibers. Causing more micro tears, making the muscle recover and getting bigger.
Both have pros and cons.....I usualy did 1 or 2 free weight excercises.....with 2 cable "isolation" excercices for the best of both worlds.
I don't like machines do to the fact they are desgigned for the "average" person.....well i'm fairly short and stocky....I iether have troble fitting in them....or I spend 5 mins adjusting the seat....to the right height....to get the movement right.
Its its size or strength you want.....look at the biggest/strongest guys in the gym......and what do they use mostly?
Freeweights!
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
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2005/08/21, 01:32 AM
yep, they're all correct, thing is, it would depend on your goals. But in my opinion, no decent weightlifter will tell you to rely on machines. The thing with them is they don't necessarily teach you the right form, and ultimately, form is very important.
I've seen a some people stack plates and plates onto a smith machine and perform each rep alright, but when they tried squatting with half those plates and a freeweight bar, their knees start to buckle, their back arches too much, they dip too low and can't get back up.
Scary image really, because it means that they can't even perform the exercise the way it --ought-- to be done, and when that happens, said person is bound for an injury. He might as well go back to square one and relearn proper form before he even starts to touch those machines.
Machines have a tendency to make you comfortable and "safe" so you just take proper form for granted, when in my opinion, everyone should learn working each muscle group using free weights until they get that form correctly.
I'm not berating machines though, they're there for a reason, but if you really want to -learn- and work 100% of your body, then grab those dumbbells. :love:
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Mommy said I couldn\'t do this and that cause I wasn\'t a boy!
-cupcake-
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2005/08/21, 01:38 PM
but dont machines help u to limit injuries? what are these stabilizer muscles and do they gain in mass a lot if free weights are used? if their gain in mass is negligible, then i might as well use a machine. if anybody isnt educated enough to answer this qstn then dont.
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2005/08/21, 01:41 PM
but dont machines help you with perfect balance throughout the exercise? i mean, if ur a martial arts player or an athlete or something obviously balance would be important and it would be wise to use freeweights to practice the balance, but in an average person's day-to-day life we dont really need to practice much balance do we? we all need to look good from the outside.(and of course feel fit inside)
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