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2005/02/07, 02:49 PM
I'm currently 320 lbs (just dropped 10 lbs in one week) and I want to get down to a nice, toned 190. The method to achieve the goal has been the subject of debate among my friends.
Some friends say that since I want to lose so much weight I should only focus on cardio and fat-burning exercises such as jogging and swimming until I get closer to my goal.
However, other friends and I seem to believe the combination of weight training :dumbbell: WITH cardio is the way to go.
Which path should I choose to reach my goal?
Thanks for your help!
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Dave
Tired of hearing \\\"he\\\'d be cute if he lost some weight\\\"
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2005/02/07, 02:57 PM
a good diet is the key'
focus on weights and add cardio
the long term bennefits for weight training are much better
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2005/02/07, 05:07 PM
I agree.........weithe ryou go adkins, mayo clinic or south beech.....get a diet and stick with it.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/07, 06:21 PM
I'm on a traditional diet which includes proper daily servings of fruits and veggies. I'm limiting starches and my protein includes things like tuna and chicken breast.
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Dave
Tired of hearing \"he\'d be cute if he lost some weight\"
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2005/02/07, 08:08 PM
Terminator can you back that up? I mean lets get real the best way to loose weight is to build muscle. After all the more muscle mass the more calories you burn just sitting around. He would be better served to do a good amount of weights....after all who is more fit in your gym the gym bunnies that hit the stairmaster all the time or those that use both weights and cardio....get real man. All the experts totaly disagree with the cardio only thing....
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 06:54 AM
If he eats correctly, his tissues will be fine.
A combination of both will probably be the most effective Dave. Cardio will certainly burn calories and take the numbers on the scale down, but lean muscle does burn fat faster. Of course, what you put in your mouth is the tie that binds either of the two.
Terminator, I think you should go back and reread your posts, it sounds a lot like you are chastizing Mutt for his opinion just because he doesn't look jacked up in his picture. I used to weigh almost 200 pounds when my Thyroid went caddiwhampassed....didn't mean that I was unknowledgeable about weight loss. Your post does make you sound rude.
Oh, and to clarify...Anni was chatting with me about the events of the superbowl.
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I can promise you that there is more to me than meets the eye.....
(a tight pair of Levis hides alot)
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2005/02/08, 07:01 AM
Dude, perhaps you should take a moment to notice that Anni said she couldn't "SPEAK" the mumbo jumbo, not that the information itself was not factual.
What the hell is wrong with you this morning Terminator?
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I can promise you that there is more to me than meets the eye.....
(a tight pair of Levis hides alot)
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2005/02/08, 07:03 AM
I would say its fine to have an opinion but don't judge.
Mutt has lots of good knowledge and provides some excellent advise to ppl.....
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2005/02/08, 08:11 AM
Intense Weight Training Increases Metabolism For 2 Days!
Many scientists say weight training is of little value for weight control because it doesn't burn very many calories compared to jogging, cycling, or cross-country skiing.
However, university of Wisconsin, LaCrosse, researchers showed that intense weight training boosted metabolism for a whopping two days after a workout. Scientists estimate metabolism by measuring oxygen consumption. Exercise boosts post-exercise metabolism by increasing muscle temperature, stimulating chemicals called uncoupling proteins that increase calorie burning, and disrupting normal cell functions (cell water, electrolytes and minerals). Elevated post-exercise metabolism can make an important contribution to weight control. This study showed that weight training helps people control bodyfat by increasing metabolism and muscle mass. (European Journal of Applied Physiology, 86:411-417, 2002)
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Spoon feeding in the long run teaches us nothing but the shape of the spoon.
-- E. M. Forster --
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2005/02/08, 08:30 AM
Terminator here are some quote from your posts that are wrong and not factual...
That is why you have to increase your carbohydrate callories to build muscle
130 pounds is going to take a long time to shed safely I want him to preserve his current lean tissue in the process
if he tries to add muscle while dieting he will lose what muscle he has. he will not lose weight unless he cuts his calotries
Um protein is the only thing that builds muscle. How is he going to save his lean mass that he has by doing just cardio? Studies show that dieting and cardio will cause muscle loss since the body naturaly breaks down muscle first as it is the easiest for the body to eat. And just how will he loose muscle while dieting/ I am on the south beach diet my calories are a bit lower overall but I am lifting heavier then ever and gain mass...dude get your facts straight....you are all over the place on this and other topics.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 09:13 AM
amen brother
I was gonna say losing that kind of weight in not gonna happen over night, slow and steady will get him there safely
good luck Dave
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2005/02/08, 10:38 AM
============
Quoting from davidday:
I'm currently 320 lbs (just dropped 10 lbs in one week) and I want to get down to a nice, toned 190. The method to achieve the goal has been the subject of debate among my friends.
Some friends say that since I want to lose so much weight I should only focus on cardio and fat-burning exercises such as jogging and swimming until I get closer to my goal.
However, other friends and I seem to believe the combination of weight training :dumbbell: WITH cardio is the way to go.
Which path should I choose to reach my goal?
Thanks for your help!
=============
Getting back to the original post, I think the only person who can answer your question honestly with your health concerns in mind would be your doctor.
Being at that weight is not healthy as we all know, and dropping weight too fast is equally not beneficial.
Please talk to your doc, and or get a personal trainer.
before training anyone or giving advice, it is best to have clearance from a doctor.
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Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/08, 11:33 AM
With all of that weight, doing any high impact excercises (tredmill, aerobics, etc.) will be hell on his joints. Building the muscles first would minimize the damage. (and as a newbie to weight training you can lose weigh while building Muscle. (BB1fit posted that on one of his responses somewhere))
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2005/02/08, 11:56 AM
I don't remember the discussion where he said this, but he did specify it is only possible for beginners. Not sure when you cease to be a beginner, but I think he said that it was because of a combination of cleaner diet and added calorie burn due to the weight training. (I may be slightly misquoting him, or leaving some important point out.)
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2005/02/07, 10:45 PM
See what I'm talking about? I've even started a debate here. LOL
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Dave
Tired of hearing \"he\'d be cute if he lost some weight\"
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2005/02/07, 10:47 PM
Right but many more studies have shown that doing nothing but cardio while cutting calories is a recipie for loosing muscle not getting fit. And since when is being overweight a reason not to lift weights? That is crazy and a bad message to get across. I am 300 and I lift just as hard or harder than most....just because I am heavy does notmean I am not able to lift....I think youa re wrong. he should do weight training along with cardio both at a slow pace( bythat I mean to ease into it). That in the end will give the best results.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/07, 10:49 PM
ANd if you want proof of this go to any ymca early in the morning you will see nicely overweight men and women walking and running till they almost pass out, week after week after week. They never get thinner. I know this as I spent 6 months working out in the morning and saw this. The ones that lost and got in shape were the ones that used weights.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 05:32 AM
David, I can't speak to the mumbo jumbo, but here's what I suggest: Eat clean and lift heavy and don't stop until you see what you like. Throw in a little cardio because it's good for you but it shouldn't be your mainstay.
Just the opinion of a small woman in a really big corn field.
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Anni
*******
In my head, I am out of my mind....
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2005/02/08, 05:41 AM
Oh yes, Terminator? You ARE rude and I hope that Mutt pounds you.
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Anni
*******
In my head, I am out of my mind....
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2005/02/08, 06:36 AM
I don't need to do any research, Terminator it's mumbo jumbo to most people. I base my advise on that eating clean is a major component of weight loss and good health in general. I'm not talking about cutting, just eating clean. Lifting heavy in the beginning means building a foundation that can be fine tuned when the weight is lost, if that's the look the person is going for.
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Anni
*******
In my head, I am out of my mind....
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2005/02/08, 06:49 AM
Terminator your posts do have some merit, what mutt is suggesting though is not using a weights program to lose weight but to gain muscle to assist in burning the fat.
Whilst lifting weights is predominantly using the ATP/PC system it does not burn fat, but it will build muscle. Being overweight will not hinder your bodies response to weight training and building muscle. Combining this with regular aerobic activity will see the biggest weight loss.
You are correct in saying that aerobic activity is where you will lose the fat using it to produce ATP for energy but the more muscle you have the faster the fat will disapear. this has been constantly reinforced on this site and this is what people who are seeing results are doing as far as my understanding is. I also know you where just trying to justify your point but it comes across as a personal attack on mutt which isnt cool. Noone asked you to judge mutt just to provide answers to the question.
Just my two cents
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2005/02/08, 04:10 AM
I am with Mutt on this one
cardio has its place but weights must have priority
its hard getting rid of the olds chool sayings...
I have trouble convincing my Mrs the very thing...well I keep trying....
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2005/02/08, 01:02 PM
Whatever cbas. I just want everyone to know that you are wrong and to follow your advice is not only confusing but dangerous as well. Please follw what carivan said and go to your doc first ok?
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 01:28 PM
the fact that newbies can build muscle and lose weight is shown in all of the amazing transformations you see in 12 week competitions.
People whose metabolism is slow who begin weight training and eating corrrectly and doing cardio really get a big initial boost and drop weight, while pumping up their mass. Part of the mass gain seen is just more fluids in the muscles them selves, which registers as muscle gain in body composition testing, but beginners really do see an initial muscle gain.
if you want me to go scour my various textbooks and journals i will.
Especially with someone who weighs 320 lbs i would think that morpheus' point about the impact of cardio on his joints is very valid. He could walk and bike for cardio, but I firmly believe that to leave weights out of his weight loss program would be remiss and a sign that the person suggesting it needs to go back and take some continuing education courses.
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Spoon feeding in the long run teaches us nothing but the shape of the spoon.
-- E. M. Forster --
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2005/02/08, 01:43 PM
While I do appreciate all the input and passionate answers, I must admit that I'm even more confused right now. :(:surprised:
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Dave
Tired of hearing \"he\'d be cute if he lost some weight\"
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2005/02/08, 02:04 PM
I know I'm fat, but I'm not one of these people who sweats just by walking down the street. I mean I'm fairly healthy (that is, if someone 300lbs + can be healthy:laugh:). I have no health issues. No high blood pressure or cardio problems. In fact, I just got back from the gym, where I jogged a mile at 4.5 mph and did another 20 mins on the bike.
Terminator, I know some people criticized on you for offering your opinion, but I really thank you for taking time to respond as I thank ALL THE OTHERS who have offered me advice. It's nice to know there's a place I can come with questions and doubts and people will actually take time to respond and debate the answer. It truly means a great deal.
I know making it to 190lbs and having killer abs will take a long time, but I'm dedicated! I'm going to do it this time. Not only am I doing it for health reasons I'm also making this change because I live a 4-minute-walk from a beautiful beach that is full of beautiful women about 8 months out of the year. Believe me -- not many would want a 320lb guy as their "summer fling". Yep, that's a big part of my motivation. I know it sounds shallow, but I'm being true to myself.
BTW, I just had lunch -- tuna, lettuce, celery, slice of 40 cal bread, 1tbsp of low fat mayo, 2 slices of reduced fat cheese and an orange. Hey -- it's a lot better than what I would've had a month ago (about $10 worth of food from Taco Bell).
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Dave
Tired of hearing \"he\'d be cute if he lost some weight\"
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2005/02/08, 02:04 PM
Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
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2005/02/08, 02:08 PM
Good luck to you Dave and keep up the good work. Feel free to post anytime.
Can you keep us posted as you progress?
BTW I deleted the double post, just in case some are curious as to the deletion.
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Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/08, 02:26 PM
David I am a 300lb guy so i know where you are coming from...you can do both by the way do 2 days of cardio and hit the weights it will work...make usre to eat clean see the grocery list for bodybuilders on one of the nutrution boards. Good luck feel free to email me and or post with any questions. Sorry for taking over your post but I wanted to make sure you got the right idea.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 02:28 PM
And cbas I would rather trust Amy's advice at least it is right and up to date. I did not take or make it personal you did.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 03:40 PM
Just because I have not posted that I have lost 60lbs does not mean that I am not knowledgeable about what I talk about. Following my advice will get him there safely....doing it your way will get him nowwhere. And cbas you do follow the same patterns when you post. You come on sounding like you know what you are talking about, but as soon as someone starts to pick it apart you get all defensive. It must make you so mad to know that I am right and you are not. This is my last post on this.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 03:43 PM
Wow... go away for a day or two and look what happens... jeepers...
David, I would suggest going to see a doctor, perhaps a nutritionist to get set up on a good diet and throw in the exercise. Weights, some cardio and you're good to go.
t
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This donut has purple in the middle, purple is a fruit. - Homer (Simpson)
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2005/02/08, 03:47 PM
Why are you assuming that terminator and cbas are the same person? What just because they are both 38 years old and from the UK? Ever heard of a coincedence? Jeez. That cbas guy would never stoop as low as to sign up under another name and give out stupid advice.
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If you are full of excuses, dont bother with me. If you are ready to make some sacrifices for the better we will get along just fine. I hate EXCUSES!!!!!
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2005/02/08, 04:13 PM
Sorry could not help myself:
The Fastest Way to Fat Loss
Cardio vs Weight Training
by Catherine Wilbert, MFS, CFT, SPN
Master of Fitness Science, Certified Fitness Trainer
and Performance Nutrition Specialist
Summer is here, and if you haven’t yet made that commitment to a fitness program, the thought of shedding a few pounds to look good in those shorts or that bathing suit, may be just the encouragement you need.
So with time of the essence, (immediate gratification being a must, with a trip to the beach just around the corner) what type of program do we embark on. For most, the seemingly obvious solution would be to cut back on the meals and start doing cardio - and lots of it. And as much as this may sound unpleasant (at least to most of us), it’s bound to burn up that extra fat, leaving us lean and toned, ready to show of those abs, right? Wrong! The good news is that these myths about weight loss are just that - while you do need to cut calories and increase activity to loose weight, there is a better, healthier, and more efficient way to do it.
First of all, embarking on some crazy fad diet that severely restricts calories may initially produce results, but in the long run will actually slow down your metabolism. Eating more frequent meals throughout the day will actually boost your metabolism. The key is better food choices, balanced meals and portion control.
What about exercise - what kind and how much? While it may feel like running on the treadmill for an hour (while you are dripping with sweat) is burning tons of calories, it’s only burning calories while you are exercising and for one to two hours after. If you really want to lose fat - and keep it off -- the best way to do it is with weight training. Weight training is the single most effective way to permanently increase your metabolism. The more muscle you have, the more fat you burn all the time - 24hours a day, 7 days a week -- not just one or two hours when you’re exercising, but every hour of every day, whether you’re exercising, eating, sleeping or sitting at your desk. Pound for pound, muscle burns 25 times more calories than fat. One pound of muscle can burn 30 to 50 calories in a day, or 350 to 500 calories a week. One pound of fat only burns two a day or 14 in a week. So, if you build just five pounds of muscle, that’s equivalent to burning 26 pounds of fat in a year.
The evidence is right in front of you in the gym. Notice the number of overweight people who do hours of cardio on the treadmill, in aerobics classes, or on the bike - or worse, all of the above. The same people, on the same program for months, maybe even years, with no noticeable results. Then, compare them to the physiques in the weight room. Ask some of those people who look the most fit how much time they really spend in the gym - it’s much less than you think. The results produced by weight training are much more effective. And if you own research isn’t convincing enough to back up these claims, consider a Tufts University study that showed strength and resistance training can increase metabolism by seven percent, and promote significant changes in body composition. Scientists calculated the higher metabolic rate meant that resistance trained subjects burned an average of an extra 354 calories per day. The final result was that weight training produces an increase in lean body mass and a decrease in body fat by a permanent increase in metabolic rate.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/08, 04:14 PM
:big_smile:
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Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/08, 04:20 PM
I doubt that you will leave it there, cbas.
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Dances with humans
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 04:27 PM
I'm psychic.
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Dances with humans
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 04:38 PM
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Quoting from the_terminator:
only a fool would argue with that charlie mutt wins. and whos this cbas guy. I dont care who wins I just care that the advise is right.
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Why does somebody have to win? The member was only asking for some quality info and you turned it into a pissing contest!
In the future if you are going to give advice, can you please back it up with a referance, otherwise don't post because it will be deleted.
:angry:
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Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/08, 04:55 PM
Thank you, asimmer.
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Quoting from asimmer:
the fact that newbies can build muscle and lose weight is shown in all of the amazing transformations you see in 12 week competitions.
People whose metabolism is slow who begin weight training and eating corrrectly and doing cardio really get a big initial boost and drop weight, while pumping up their mass. Part of the mass gain seen is just more fluids in the muscles them selves, which registers as muscle gain in body composition testing, but beginners really do see an initial muscle gain.
if you want me to go scour my various textbooks and journals i will.
Especially with someone who weighs 320 lbs i would think that morpheus' point about the impact of cardio on his joints is very valid. He could walk and bike for cardio, but I firmly believe that to leave weights out of his weight loss program would be remiss and a sign that the person suggesting it needs to go back and take some continuing education courses.
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2005/02/08, 06:00 PM
Once upon a time on the world wide web there was a place where people gathered to discuss the finer points of a common interest they shared. It was a friendly place. Reminded me of days spent around the camp fire. They learned from each other and helped other blaze the same trail. They made friends. Life was good.
The rulers of this land were learned,helpful and kind. For completely altruistic reasons these rulers patiently answered questions, taught the willing, bandaged the wounded and generally saw to it that all the kiddies worked and played well together.
One day a new kid showed up at the campfire. We'll call him Top Bass. :big_smile: Now Top Bass just couldn't understand why the rulers and the children got upset when he pissed on the fire. The other children held their noses and cried eeeewwwww. Stop that Top Bass. Top Bass said " I love the smell of piss on the fire. That makes it right"! The other children and the rulers tried to explain to Top Bass that peeing in the fire ruined the atmosphere. Top Bass got very angry and called everybody names and swore he'd leave and never return.
The next day Top Bass strolled into the camp sight, whipped it out and pissed on the fire again. The children and rulers cried out "Top Bass why do you do this when we've asked you not to? Top Bass said " I'm not Top Bass, I'm Jamie Lee Curtis". The children and rulers said "Oh, okay then please don't pee on the fire. About 3 seconds later Jamie Lee whipped it out and peed once again on the fire. "YOU ARE TOP BASS" the rulers and children cried in unison. Top Bass/Jamie Lee said "Yeah I'm both people. Let Me stay and I won't pee on the fire again". The rulers said ok. 3 seconds later Jamie/Top peed on the fire , called the rulers names and swore to leave for good.
Poor Jamie Lee just couldn't understand why nobody wanted to be around him. :(
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Dances with humans
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 06:02 PM
I have no idea who posted that. I blacked out, the next time i looked the post was there. I must be senile. Thats my story and I'm sticking with it. I gotta pee. Later.
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Dances with humans
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 06:43 PM
I didn't say you did. Reread the story I didn't post. It's about some cat named Top Bass or Jamie Lee.
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I\'m not Charlie
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 08:12 PM
That was perfect!!!!!
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2005/02/08, 08:23 PM
I'm peeing myself laughing!
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Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/08, 08:27 PM
Move away from the fire please.
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I am not Charlie
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 08:29 PM
So how does the story end Charlie??
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2005/02/08, 08:34 PM
I guess we'll know the next time I black out and don't write somthing.
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I am not Charlie
Charlie
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2005/02/08, 08:57 PM
Wow did I miss somthing good lol.....
just for the record....I lost about 60lbs just by weight training........and a modifided atkins diet.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/09, 01:24 PM
Davidday - the final answer to your question is - do weights and cardio, preferably on alternate days or cardio after lifting. eat a healthy diet, lots of lean protein, fresh vegetables and whole grains.
Stick to the more compound movements when lifting, at this stage you don't need to isolate small muscles.
Start with presses and pulls, squats, rows - movements where you used muscle groups together.
When doing cardio, monitor your heart rate and don't over-exert (you will just fatigue your heart). There is a post on target heart rates in the FAQs forum.
Terminator - I am a certified personal trainer, have a degree in Health Sciences and continually update my knowledge base with certifications and all the reading i can get my hands on. I also have a lot of personal experience losing weight. I also have a lot of hands on experience helping overweight clients lose weight and tonwe up, and helping people who have been working out for years with no results suddenly break through and get results. I don't think my expertise or advice is is any way remiss or questionable.
If david were my client I certainly would perform stress tests on him and be sure his doctor had no restrictions for his exercise plan, but I would also be sure that he began to build a strong foundation for a healthy lifestyle with weight lifting, supplemented with cardio. A lot of research is coming out now saying that weight lifting actually does have a cardiovascular effect, meaning that cardio is not as imperative as it once was thought.
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Quoting from davidday:
While I do appreciate all the input and passionate answers, I must admit that I'm even more confused right now. :(:surprised:
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Spoon feeding in the long run teaches us nothing but the shape of the spoon.
-- E. M. Forster --
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2005/03/05, 12:20 AM
im quiet confused also
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