Group: General Fitness & Exercise

Created: 2011/12/31, Members: 382, Messages: 54581

Various general exercise related discussions. Find out what it takes to reach your fitness goals through daily effective exercise. With so many options we try to find out what works best.

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skipping loading phase

metalofhonor
metalofhonor
Posts: 16
Joined: 2006/12/26
United States
2007/01/10, 11:26 AM
i skipped the loading phase while starting to take creatine is there something wrong with that? and can i just stop taking that at any time that i want or is there side affects
jbennett
jbennett
Posts: 1,558
Joined: 2001/02/28
United States
2007/01/10, 12:06 PM
This has been posted multiple times. No loading phase necessary.

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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
BIGKATT
BIGKATT
Posts: 82
Joined: 2006/12/19
United States
2007/01/10, 12:37 PM
There is no reason to do a loading phase. The body will absorb what creatine is needed and expell the rest that it does not need. In a weeks time the body will have the same amount of creatine that it would have had if you "loaded" so, it's not even necessary to do.

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Either You Worked Out Today or You Didn\'t
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2007/01/10, 02:34 PM
Totally up to you...I would suggest taking it pre workout though.

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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."

sbroyhill
sbroyhill
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005/04/06
United States
2007/01/10, 05:57 PM
Ok bb1 that brought me to an interesting question......

This is what I do, I talk a smaller dose of creatine (2g)mixed with caffiene and No2 prior to workout (about 30 min.), then follow with a dose of 3g within minutes of finishing a workout.... and a final 3g dose about 6 hours later. Is this an effective way? Just curious because in theory this would be an effective way and seems to work great for me, but not sure if it has been tested since I have never seen any studies on this.

I can explain the reason why theoretically it sounds effective, but since you are knowledgable in this (I am assuming) you would already know why.

BIGKATT
BIGKATT
Posts: 82
Joined: 2006/12/19
United States
2007/01/10, 06:05 PM
I've heard that caffeine interferes with the bodys ability to absorb creatine....Just what I've heard, so I avoid ALL caffeine drinks completly.

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Either You Worked Out Today or You Didn\'t
BIGKATT
BIGKATT
Posts: 82
Joined: 2006/12/19
United States
2007/01/10, 06:14 PM
Caffeine is a commonly used in conjunction with fitness programs. Many weight loss supplements come loaded with caffeine. Additionally, athletes often use caffeine during training for its stimulatory effects. Ironically, chronic caffeine use will also lessen the boost in strength you receive from creatine. One recent study has shown that extended caffeine use COMPLETEY ABOLISHES the physical benefits typically afforded by creatine use (ref. 1). By contrast, a single dose of caffeine immediately before exercise either has no effect (ref. 2), or even enhances the improvement in strength observed with creatine (ref. 3). Therefore, at least as far as creatine is concerned, chronic caffeine consumption appears to be much more counterproductive than an occasional cup of coffee.

This result initially came as a complete surprise to the scientists conducting the research. They had originally expected caffeine to ENHANCE creatine's benefits since caffeine should create a more permissive environment for creatine transport into muscle. In fact, creatine is transported into skeletal muscle equally well with, or without, caffeine. The most likely hypothesis, therefore, is that caffeine is exerting its inhibitory effect directly on the contractile machinery of muscle.

Certain wrong explanations, however, can be discounted from the start. First, the fact that caffeine is a diuretic has nothing to do with its counterproductive effect. Diuretics increase the amount of fluid that is excreted from the body in the urine. By apparent contrast, ingesting creatine monohydrate powder causes our muscles to retain more fluids thereby reducing urine production. These opposing effects of caffeine and creatine have inspired rumors that caffeine counteracts the benefits of creatine by preventing muscles from retaining fluids.

Making this mental link is erroneous and assumes that water retention by skeletal muscle, otherwise known as muscle volumizing, is the source of creatine's physical benefit. Although increasing the girth of our muscles, muscle volumizing has no proven effect on strength. In other words, size alone isn't the basis for strength, rather augmented energy stores (ATP and PCr) and increased contractile proteins (increased protein synthesis) are the true source of strength. Our muscles get bigger when we train because the amount of proteins they contain increases. Blood flow to our muscle also increases causing them to swell. With reference to training, therefore, size and strength do go hand in hand. On the other hand, inflating our muscles with water without the benefit of these other biochemical processes accomplishes very little, athletically speaking.



A more feasible explanation is that caffeine interferes with the contractile properties of muscle.

Would it surprise you that relaxation and power are one in the same? In truth, strength is the outcome of the coordinated interplay between muscle contraction and relaxation. For example, when performing a biceps curl the triceps must relax at the same time as the biceps contract for the bar to rise. If both muscle groups remain contracted (or relaxed) the bar goes absolutely nowhere! In other words, without the coordinated relaxation of antagonistic muscle groups there is no power. On a mechanistic level it is the presence of calcium that triggers contraction. Calcium must therefore be stingily hidden away into special storage compartments when muscle relaxation is required and only released from these intramuscular storage sites when contraction is desired.

It is thus relevant that one of PCr's primary roles in muscle is to provide the energy to return calcium into these reservoirs. In this manner creatine (PCr) assists in muscle relaxation and enhances our athletic performance. Interestingly, caffeine has the opposite effect of allowing calcium to escape from these intracellular calcium storage sites. Caffeine would thus hamper muscle relaxation. In agreement with these findings a recent study has shown that caffeine interferes with creatine's ability to facilitate muscle relaxation, especially during moments of fatigue (ref. 2). Caffeine might thusly confound the ability of PCr to store away calcium and in doing so nullify part of creatine's benefit.



Take Home

If you're serious about getting the most from creatine, avoid chronic use of caffeine. Scientific studies show that the equivalent of three cups of coffee per day for as little as three days is sufficient to completely negate the benefits typically afforded by creatine (ref. 1). On the other hand, an occasional cup of coffee doesn't seem to render much harm (refs. 2, 3).





Scientific References:

1. Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P. (1996) Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading. Journal of Applied Physiolgy Volume 80(2), pages 452-457

2. Hespel P, Op't Eijnde B, Van Leemputte M. (2002) Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans. Journal of Applied Physiology Volume 92, pages 513-518

3. Doherty M, Smith PM, Davison RC, Hughes MG. (2002) Caffeine is ergogenic after supplementation of oral creatine monohydrate. Med Sci Sports Exerc Volume 34, pages 1785-1792

sbroyhill
sbroyhill
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005/04/06
United States
2007/01/10, 06:17 PM
The only studies that have been conducted to my knowledge regarding caffiene and creatine was the ones using a 600mg dosage, or 3 times the normal dose, of caffiene with creatine. I have yet to see a study that shows with smaller doses of caffeine and creatine.

On a side note, the creatine I use is not a monohydrate, it is a CEE, if that makes any difference.
sbroyhill
sbroyhill
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005/04/06
United States
2007/01/10, 06:19 PM
I posted mine as you posted yours... That study is the one I was referring to, I used 600mg as the dose of caffiene, which is the equivilant of 6 glasses of coffee. The dose I take is only 100mg.
sbroyhill
sbroyhill
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005/04/06
United States
2007/01/10, 06:23 PM
Mistype meant to say 10mg.
sbroyhill
sbroyhill
Posts: 442
Joined: 2005/04/06
United States
2007/01/10, 06:24 PM
One note too the studies also show that chronic caffeine usage does this, not small doses. The amount I am taking is for another purpose, and should not affect the creatine since it is the only caffiene I take the entire day.
BIGKATT
BIGKATT
Posts: 82
Joined: 2006/12/19
United States
2007/01/10, 07:16 PM
Right on bud, just offering another perspective... Like you said, there haven't really been enough THOROUGH studies done on creatine yet. Like I said, just offering another perspective that some believe to be true :)