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shoulders

edwardJ Posts: 25 Joined: 2005/10/24	2008/02/06, 08:44 AM so ive been doing strength training for 5 months now and i am finally making some solid progress. in my workouts i dont include any exercises that work on my shoulders. would my lifts benifit if i were to incorporate some shoulder work and if so what exercises would you suggest? i always felt that doing bench would be enough to work this area but i could be wrong - hat are your thoughts? thanks
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/06, 08:51 AM the bench hits the delts a lot. i also incorporate a lot of back work which helps, and face pulls. sometimes we do things like lat raises, but i tend to neglect overhead pressing. its to much to do both benching, overhead pressing, and tri work twice a week. you could always take 1 day to do some shoulders, and then replace it the next. since inm unsure of how you lift exactly, overhead pressing is really beneficial. most lack overhead pressing work which is proabbly better than benching. however, for those powerlifters, obviously, the choice is easy...
Pemdas Posts: 973 Joined: 2004/07/22	2008/02/06, 10:41 AM I really don't agree with you nate. I also didn't do should work for awhile, but it is bitting me in ass right. Plus, all the guys over at elitefts advocate heavy shoulder work for raw benchers. This make a lot of sense if you think about. The shoulders are most active in bottom part of the bench. This where equipped guys get most of their support, which why they don't need it as much. I beginning to believe that heavy shoulder work is imperative for raw lifters. Now, you are probably going to ask where would I put it...right after speed bench. To the OP...yes do some shoulder work and don't neglect your rear delts and traps. If they are feeling really run down just back off for a week. OH pressing both DB and BB - you can these seated with no back support, seated with your back against the bench, standing...ect. Face-pulls Seated DB cleans Shurgs Rear delt flies. Upright rows. Don't do all of them at once...they are just a list possible movements. I think lateral raises are waste of time, but that is just me.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/02/06, 11:18 AM ============ Quoting from coolnatedawg: its to much to do both benching, overhead pressing, and tri work twice a week. ============= Why would you need to do tricep work after heavy benching and overhead work? Tell me what I'm going to accomplish by doing skull crushers after a ME 2 Board Press and Push Press. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
	2008/02/06, 03:44 PM Steve I share your sentiments exactly. Doing heavy tricep movements is unnecessary if you're going heavy on OHP or Bench and their variants. I slacked off or skipped my shoulder/ohp training and paid for it. I like Military presses Push presses Bent Presses Push Jerks Jerks Side Presses With DBs, Barbells, KBs, Sandbag...whatever you got... Raw and natural lifters need to do shoulder/ohp training. Period. You may want to do some separate lighter isolation work for rear delts and rotator cuffs to keep everything balanced and healthy.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/06, 04:23 PM i never said that it is not a good idea nor that it shoudl not be done. i even said that you should do it instead of other lifts on some days. that can and does include in replacement of a bench movement and the like. that can include doing OH work instead of a bench movement. i merely state that for a powerlifter, its more important to get the bench work in (sort of). i also mention that it is something i neglect... but even i throw in shoulder work from time to time... however, in terms of doing tricep work, i am talking abouthigher rep stuff to get blood flowing, not heavy skullcrushers, but maybe light sc with some volume to it... i see nothing wrong with what i said when it really does cover your rebuttles.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/02/06, 05:26 PM You said in place, I said and. Why split like this... Day 1 Bench Tricep isolation work Day 2 OHP Tricep Iso When I can do this Day 1 Bench OHP Day 2 Bench anything else I need. I'm still getting in the OH at least once a week, and I can still focus on my bench. I don't think "time to time" is enough. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/06, 07:50 PM haha. it took me forever to understand that first sentence of yours. i think that we are both saying the same thing, i am just not saying it correctly. the way you set it up is how i mean it. when i said bench ohp tri work, that was like my main supplemental accessory all of which can be moved and/or changed. i would not just do OHP and tri or anything like that. i guess i thought i was being more apparent about trying to have a split like that than i thought i was. oh well... btw... edwardj, i think all this has probably answered your question. sorry if i was more confusing than i meant to be.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/06, 07:53 PM ============ Quoting from wrestler125: ============= i feel like my quoted sentence and your last sentence express the same point... i guess i should stop making suggestions if i can not be clear enough even to the people that i believe should understand me
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/06, 07:54 PM the quote: ============ Quoting from coolnatedawg: its to much to do both benching, overhead pressing, and tri work twice a week. ============= Why would you need to do tricep work after heavy benching and overhead work? Tell me what I'm going to accomplish by doing skull crushers after a ME 2 Board Press and Push Press
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2008/02/06, 08:11 PM if it's shoulder conditioning you need....various side laterals would suffice. if you need shoulder strength....there's only one thing.....pressing over head style. -------------- \\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\\"
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/02/06, 08:23 PM I took it to mean that you were suggesting tri work was more important than OHP. However, that is why I wrote out an example. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2008/02/07, 12:07 AM no no. just the opposite, or at least for a raw person. for a shirted bencher, maybe this is true that work is more important.
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2008/02/08, 02:05 PM I've resently found out( pemdas pointed it out) that "push" anything does nothing but get you past the weak point in pressing.... So i'd say press setting down, press standing up, sideways whatever. My new favorite excercise is bradford presses/rainbow presses. Go dburn for those...but I keep them in sets of 8 or more. -------------- \\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\\"
dobbs8 Posts: 8 Joined: 2008/02/19	2008/02/26, 04:53 PM I didnt feel like reading everyones post soo..yes work your shoulders. The bench does your upper chest but you use your shoulders more then any other body part. Work them, there are a lot of exercises to do..Good luck
andrewlandolfi Posts: 12 Joined: 2007/11/11	2008/02/26, 06:10 PM do a lot of side raises with a lot of reps. i been doing them for 3 weeks and really see some definition and i have more strength
	2008/02/26, 11:41 PM perhaps u should have read the previous posts...maybe u would have learned something...
razor.blade Posts: 2 Joined: 2008/02/25	2008/02/27, 01:29 AM in my training it says that for my shoulders i should do side laterals, so idk mabee it'll work for you.
ecle5c Posts: 1,312 Joined: 2003/07/10	2008/02/27, 08:56 AM .....(me banging my head on the desk in front of me).....