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2003/03/29, 04:40 AM
Has anyone else entered the Body-for-Life competition. I joined this year to try and get rid of the extra 10-15 lbs of fat on me. It seems like a pretty good idea, until they try to sell you their supplements. $$$$$$$. No thanks!
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Pain is weakness leaving the body
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2003/03/29, 09:45 AM
It aworks like anything else if you stick to it.The key is to change your eating habits and exercise. You DON't need all of Bill's Supplements. Try a 12 week program and you will feel great. If you fin d that you do need a supplement because you can't eat enough then get a good protein and a good Multivitamin should be in there anyway.
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We must become the change we want to see.
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/29, 10:15 AM
I did BFL when I first got into weight training and eating properly a few years ago. I think it is a good program and like carivan said, you DO NOT need to buy the supplements. They are only there for the convenience factor of eating 6 meals per day. I ate 6 meals, but about 4-5 came from whole food. Good luck to you.
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2003/04/07, 01:00 PM
When I research new exercise/nutrition programs,books and latest trends, I look at the author's creditials. I have yet to find any on Bill. The Body for Life program flies in the face of everything I have learned about resistance training. His diet program is the Diabetic Diet plan that you can get from any physician or licensed nutritionist.
A better source for resistance training programs, that will meet your specific needs is any ACSM or NSCA certified personal trainer.
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2003/04/07, 01:25 PM
I don't think it flies in the face of everything about resistance training, but I didn't like his lifting routine.
i think that for beginners and those who don't know how to eat the BFL nutrition plan is easy to follow and very good.
Bill phillips has done an amazing job inspiring countless people to getup off their a--es and get moving, so don't discount the man.
I have found that myoplex are some of the better tasting shakes, but thier bars kind lack flavor and tend to be chalky.
EAS is a good company as far as customer service, if you call them with questions you will find out that employees have to taste test the products so they can help you better.
BFL isn't a trend, it is one of the longest running competitions out there.
I'm sorry, but i really enjoy Muscle Media magazine - it has real people in it, as does his magazine for women Energy.
We have got to support the people who are making a real difference in people's lives, and I feel that Bill Phllips is one of those people.
of course he is going to push his products, isn't weider's mag full of products and athletes that make him a decent living?
But I have found EAS supplemments to be pretty quality so far, and recently MM mag decided not to carry ads for products that don't have back-up research.
Don't be so fast to knock a person or company just becasue they don't have the credentieals you look for. many of his contributors in MM do have big credentials.
And his plan is a lot different than any eating plan I have ever seen come from a nutritionist, they seem to be stuck on the high carb, low portein diet that had made so many people fat.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/07, 07:39 PM
I agree with you 100% asimmer. The last time I checked, the people with all the "credentials" are usually the ones spreading all of this mis-information bullcrap. dnewlin, tell the hundreds of thoudands of people that now feel better about themselves, have a better outlook on life and better self-esteem that what they did was nothing and that it "flies in the face" of everything you have learned. People will listen to Bill Phillips BECASUE he lives the life that he preaches. I am sick and tired of all of these health experts that tell everyone to eat healthy and be active, but yet they look 20 years older than they should and are usually out of shape and overweight (my "ADA" registered dietician teacher has high BP and very overfat). To me, experience are the only credentials that somebody needs, especially when it comes to weight training. There are very few set rules to weight training, so how the BFL flies in the face of everything you have learned about weight training is beyond me. The field of exercise and nutrition is vast and expanding everyday, it is unfortunate that people are always threatened by things they cannot understand or are not willing to learn about. So what good are degrees and certifications if an individual is not willing to expand there knowledge? Health and fitness is a lifestyle, it is a living thing, an entity, it's what makes a lot of us tick. This is something that to many people cannot comprehend unforunately.
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2003/04/07, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the confirmation, dahayz. i was wondering all afternoon if i had overreacted, but I am fierce about Bill Phillips.
Oh, and I have credentials, too. So, what does that make me?
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/07, 09:17 PM
Yes I do to, but I was aiming more towards the high degree holders and docs who know absolutely everything there is to know about anything. (Being sarcastic). No offense to you.
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2003/04/07, 09:27 PM
I was just kidding, but I know what you mean.
i liked the guy who held a seminar at the gym and told my training partner that reverse curls and oblique exercises were useless. i asked her if he had really great abdominals, did he pull up his shirt and say - I did this without those exercises?
No, he was a skinny little guy.
I personally really feel the lower half of my rectus abdominus when i do reverse curls, I think it is a mute point that it is all one muscle down the middle. You work your hamstrings from both points of attachment, you work your quads from both points of attachment, why wouldn't you work your abs from both points of attachment?
And if it ain't broke...
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/07, 09:33 PM
LOL, I definately agree and that proves both of our points. But also, we are a visual society, and if you don't look the part, than what a person says falls on deaf ears. "In the trench" experience is still the most effective form of education.
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2003/04/08, 12:46 AM
Whoa!! I sure touched on a sore spot with Bill. I too have been in the trenches for about 10 years now,plus creditials. My point being,I generally have doubts about most popular diet and exercise programs, especially ones that sell supplements etc...and advertise with only testimonials and not solid research.
Beginning exercisers will respond and adapt to any training stimulus, but is it the correct stimulus? One of the basic rules of exercise prescription is Individual Differences,
specific programing for the individual, which includes diet,
a resistance training program and cardiovascular training.
That is where a good personal trainer comes in handy and learning in the trenches.
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2003/04/08, 07:09 AM
Low Volume, Progressive Intensity Training
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It may be tempting to follow a training program used by an experienced lifter or elite athlete. Beginners will probably make progress no matter what they do, as long as they train consistently. After some time, though, the body's ability to recuperate is out paced by the individual's ability to intensify their workouts. More advanced individuals must not necessarily workout harder, but they must workout smarter. Progress occurs during recovery, or between workouts. If the body has not fully recovered between workouts, overtraining can occur. Overtraining is probably the most common mistake of weight trainees of any level.
Current popular weight training dogma is based on training practices of athletes, bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters of the past. Training information is passed down from generation to generation. High school coaches often use programs from college coaches, who mimic programs followed professional athletes. Not only can professional athletes usually recover from greater volumes and intensities of work but they may often use ergogenic aids to recuperate. Many coaches, athletes, and other individuals incorporate program philosophies popularized in the '70s and '80s. These programs worked during the era when anabolic steroids were commonly used by many advanced weight lifters. Since then, anabolic steroids have been deemed illicit. With out these ergogenic aids, the programs of the past often lead to physical and psychological overtraining. Training naturally is quite different than training synthetically.
The ACSM Weight Training Guidelines state more than one set may elicit slightly greater strength gains but additional improvement is relatively small (ACSM 1995). Fleck and Kramer's review of the literature suggest the optimal number of sets is between 2 and 5 sets (Fleck & Kraemer, 1997). A second set seems understandable since a warm up set may allow greater intensity for the the following workout set ( Shellock & Prentice, 1985).
Many scientific studies demonstrate one set is almost effective as multiple sets, if not just as effective in strength and muscle hypertrophy (Starkey, Pollock, et. al. 1996). These studies have been criticized for using untrained subjects. Hass et. al. (2000) compared the effects of one set verses three sets in experienced recreational weightlifters. Both groups significantly improved muscular fitness and body composition during the 13 week study. Interestingly, no significant differences were found between groups for any of the test variables; including muscular strength, muscular endurance, and body composition.
A few maverick fitness authorities and professional bodybuilders have advocated high intense, very low volume training. Author Jones, the founder of Nautilus and MedX weight training equipment, was one of the early pioneers of single set training. In the 1980s, Casey Viator, the youngest Mr. America and Mr. Olympia contestant, and Mike Mentzer, Mr. Universe and Mr. Olympia contestant, promoted the high intense, low volume training. More recently, Dorian Yates, several time Mr. Olympia, reportedly performed only a warm up set and one or occasionally two workout sets through out his off-season training.
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2003/04/08, 07:22 AM
Weight training components (intensity, duration, frequency) are thought to be inversely proportionate to one another (I*D*F). This model suggests if one component is decreased, increasing one or both of the other components may make up for this loss. For example, by training each muscle group every 4 days instead of every 3 days (decrease frequency), the number of exercises or sets may be increased (increase duration), or the amount of weight may be increased (increase intensity).
Intensity is the least forgiving of the three components, if intensity is decreased for a time, strength and muscle mass gains will likely deteriorate. Increasing frequency or duration can not make up for a decrease of intensity. Furthermore, intensity will be unintentionally decreased if duration is too great. Each additional set or exercise performed in a workout decreases the amount of weight that can be used. If someone is aware they have yet several sets and many exercises to perform, they will hold back and not put full effort early in the workout. By the time they have completed the first part of their workout, they are unable to put full intensity in the remainder of their workout because of fatigue of all the exercises and sets they had just performed. Since muscular endurance is not a limiting factor with a low volume program, greater weight can be used.
A progressive intensity program seems to be the key factor in strength development, and consequentially muscle building (or muscle mass restoration). Weight training intensity is also seems to be the key component for fat loss. Not only can anaerobic activity utilizes calories for several hours after training , but restoration of muscle mass increases calories expended at any activity level, even during rest. These common goals can be obtained by doing the most within the least number of sets and exercises. Specifically, this involves performing as many repetitions as possible within the repetition range of the workout set, one repetition short of failure or compromising exercise form.
By performing an additional set (50% to 100% more sets) only 0 to 5% more progress will be observed. Each additional set yields even less progress to a point of diminishing return. The time saved with an abbreviated weight training program can often be used more wisely elsewhere in a program. More aerobics should be performed if fat loss, toning, or cardiovascular conditioning is a goal. Duration is a more important component with aerobics exercise. Alternatively, more sports specific training can be performed if improvement of athletic ability is a goal. In addition, more rest can be take between sets if strength is a goal. Finally, more time can be spent recuperating after workouts, decreasing the stagnant or injurious effects of overtraining.
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2003/04/08, 09:15 AM
What did you just copy a chapeter from your text book?
I know all about program design and progression, as do most good trainers. however - my clients get the best results when i tailor those guidelines to their level.
Phillips routine isn't really low volume, he goes up to 12 repititions, and his progression is good.
I don't think you can argue with his program. i personally don't like it because it is not intense enough for myself, but that indicates to me that it is a good program for beginners and will not end up in overtraining.
If you check into his publications, you will find that EAS/Phillips does a lot of research, and his info comes from scientific journals, not muscle and fitness.
Every issue has up-to-date research articles and articles that debunk popular myths and products.
You can have all the scientific information in the world, but what it comes down to is effort and consistency.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/08, 12:24 PM
Although I'm not a fan of Phillips or BFL, anything that causes large numbers of people (I think hundreds of thousands is probably a big stretch) to pay attention to their health can't be all bad. EAS's supplements are solid, but not spectacular. I take major issue with the addition of trans fatty acids in Myoplex, however. It's obviously unnecessary and done only to improve flavor. Although that's sound business mentality, it still defies the concept of improved health. It is essentially preying on the health of EAS's customers.
As far as the Body For Life plan, I also don't like the fact that EAS's supplements are pushed so hard. No one needs 3 MRP's a day. Add that up and it's 120g of protein - just from supplements. That's definate overkill for most people that eat a normal diet. And at a couple bucks a pop, that's murder on the wallet. The fact that the book first advises you never to go more than three hours without eating, but then advises you to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomache seems a tad contradictory, not to mention exercise on an empty stomache is sort of silly.
I think the workout plan, though unimpressive, is sufficient. It doesn't put enough emphasis on compound movements or on the larger muscle groups. Nor to mention I have a very hard time believing those before and after pictures. Twleve weeks to a bodybuilder body? Please.
I think the main reason that I don't like Body For Life is the marketing hype. It advertises amazing transformations in 12 weeks. Those of us that have worked out know that doesn't happen. It's that kind of false promotion that leads me to dump BFL in the same bin as many of the overhyped supplements.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/04/08, 12:30 PM
dnewlin - I'm not sure if that text is advocating the one set to failure approach, but that has been proven useless to anyone but beginners. Most types of training have their place, but I think the one set to failure approach is among the least useful. The high intensity, low volume training that the text criticizes is a staple in the training of many elite athletes and myself. Training the CNS and maximal strength training is underused in my opinion.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/04/08, 12:49 PM
That's me on the null post..computer messed up. Yes I am speaking of the one set to failure program. I was referencing it to a beginning program. I still use it to change up my own program. I think it is one of the best programs for beginners because it gives them a solid fitness base plus is simple in program design. I remember not being able to figure out some programs because of the complicated exercises involved and the intricate program structure. One thing I have learned with my own program as well as in designing programs for others is the acronym KISS,keep it simple stupid, maybe that is overly simplistic, but it works.
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2003/04/08, 10:02 PM
I think, in the end you need to see who knows how to lose bodyfat and how they eat to do it. i put most of my clients on a modified bodybuilder diet that cycles carbs and includes good fats, that is what seems to work once they have cleaned up their diet.
It all comes down to sticking with it and making it make sense in layman's terms to the average exerciser, not boggling their minds with technical data.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I am nit arguing that. i just think that you can't discount a program that has helped so many people change their lives.
Usually when you read the success stories of the people who seem to have had really fantastic transformations through BFL you find out that they did 3 or more 12 -week challenges. hey, if that is what keeps you motivated and stair-steps you to your ultimate goals, more power to you.
I think you also have to look at the book and see what a good motivational tool it is because you really can't change your body without changing your mindset and BFL really focuses on the mental aspects of fitness.
One of the reasons BFL works for so many people is that Phillips did KISS, his program is common sense and easy to follow.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/09, 06:14 AM
I think that just about sums it up.
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2003/04/09, 06:20 AM
I used it to help me lose my 90 lbs...It is great and I would recommend it to anyone who needs a simple to follow common sense plan. Health is key...this is not for those who want to "diet" but want to be healthy for the rest of their lives. It can be modified for any fitness level as is goes by each individuals abilities. :)
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2003/04/09, 10:53 PM
Asimmer,Do you use Phillip's diet/exercise program with any of your client's and if you do what are their success rates?
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2003/04/10, 11:35 AM
i have a client who finally listened and changed her eating program to the BFL type plan (I modify it a little bit) and she has dropped 20 pounds since then.
I also had two clients in the past who had tremendous results doing the BFL diet on their own (one had already discovered it when he came to me for training and another got on it from my recommendation).
I think the key is that they start eating 5-6 times a day, which revs their metabolism, and they have these easy to read lists and easy guidelines for portion size.
i am not saying Phillips invented the plan, he just put it down on paper so it was easy to follow.
It is a successful program for many people and their continued success remains to be seen, as it is in their hands, but I know my clients have made it a part of their lifestyle not just because they lost weight, but because their energy bouyed up and there muscles felt so different once they started feeding them.
I say that I modify Phillips' eating because I tend to drop out some of the starchier carbs that he has on his lists if the results slow down, like i said in my previous post, i use a modified bodybuilder diet for my clients. We take polaroids once a month and if there is change we stay the course and if there is no change we alter the eating or the workout a little to tweak their program.
i said previously that i don't like his exercise plan, but I do know people (not all clients, but aquaintances at the gym) who follow his workout program and really like the results they have gotten. Like any other program, eventually people plateau, and then i help them redesign or step up the intensity or switch exercises, whatever it takes.
Phillips hasn't done anything new or extraodinary - he just made what bodybuilders do simplified enough for the avergae layperson to follow. Again - who knows how to lose bodyfat? Bodybuilders. Fiollow their type of diet and workout (granted it isn't as strcit or strenuous, most of the time) and you will get results, especially if you have never done it before.
i think if you took anyone off the street and took what they were eating, even if it was crappy food, and made them split it into six smal, evenly spaced meals, they would get results (at least until their body adapted.
I think Phillips is an amazing person to have taken what is pretty much common knowledge amongst bodybuilders/trainers, put it in a nice one-stop book and make it sky rocket the way he has. he is obviously a very smart businessman. but he has also galvanized so many people to take that first step and get moving and set goals, even if they don't instantly transform into physique models, they have stepped onto the path and started their journet towards better health and fitness.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/10, 03:19 PM
As someone who just completed the BFL plan, I would recommend it to anyone as a "Starter Kit" for a healthy lifestyle. I'm sure a professional could easily point out the bad things about the plan, but for me the bottom line is that it taught me how to stop my bad habits and start the good ones. For the first time in my life I feel like I'm in control of my eating habits, as well as my workout routine and do not forsee me going back to my old ways. I now go to the gym 6 days a week, and have stopped the midnight Potato chip raids for good. I am aware that there is so much more for me to learn about the right way to eat and the proper exercises to do, I think Bill's approach just opens the door to this whole new world. I no longer obsess over my appearance/weight and look forward to the results to come. With a change like that, could Bill's program really be all that bad?
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2003/04/10, 04:18 PM
That's exactly why the BFL program has been so successful. It opens the door to so many more opportunities. After I completed the program myself a few years ago, I realized that I want to help people feel as good as I did both physically and mentally. That is what led me to become a personal trainer and totally change my life. And I have said it before, but I simply cannot stand some Phd fool knocking programs like this. Why do they do this? Because it is foreign to them and they simply will never understand because they don't care to. These are programs that actually work, and as weird as it may sound, it threatens them because it underminds what they have been traditionally taught and preach. In the end it's all about having the right attitude, the right mindset and determination, there is nothing scientific about it.
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2003/04/10, 06:29 PM
It all boils down to eat clean, workout with progressive weight that challenges your muscles, do cardio, repeat.
The scientific stuff is nice because evrytime I read a report it pretty much confirms what I already know, but it really isn;t rocket science to get fit. People need to feel like it is something they can do and I think they are entitled to an easy approach that gets results without being told that if they don't know their VO2max or some such that they can't achieve fitness.
Every person should know how to use theri body and how to feed their body.
Spread the word!
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/11, 07:03 AM
I have a question and a challenge to pose too all posting responses. Are we all agreeing to the fact we are willing to learn and keep open minds about exercise and aquiring healthy lifestyles?
I am going to re-read Body For Life for this purpose.
I am also asking that any of you with the time read, take a look at publication intitled Body Defining, written by Ellington Darden. I researched and read this book a couple of years ago and have used it with some of my beginning clients with great success. It too is very simple in design, easy to follow and teaches behavior modification techniques as well. If any of you have read it give me your input, if you have not read it, give it a try.
Oh, by the way I do have a BS in Physical Education but I also have many years of pratical knowledge as well. I am not taking personal pot shots at anyone else's intelligence, willingness to learn or educational status. I am trying to discuss the merits of BFL.
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2003/04/11, 09:25 AM
I can sum this up to this statement....what works for some may not work for all. we each need to find that way that gets us the gains, and enables us to reach our goals....I find diets and other training methods to be false till I try them and see results....it was not till I started my "powerlifting" style work out that I truly saw gains is size strength, endurance, and fat loss.....this was on a rather nice diet where I ate pretty clean...but I have never seen anyone both in the gym or in a book have a plan like I did for the last 4 months.....does it meak me worng and them right or vice versa? No, it just worked for me and that in the end is what counts.
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IF YOU CAN STILL ITCH YOUR NOSE AFTER ARM DAY, GO DO ANOTHER SET!!!
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2003/04/11, 01:23 PM
I'll look for Body Defining and give it a read. I think I have read nearly every program out, including the ACSM stuff. I am always willing to learn and expand, and I think any program is going to have its good points and its bad points (or arguable points).
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/15, 02:34 PM
Just wanted to chime in on this quickly. As I said above, something that inspires people to get fit can never be all bad. The premises of the diet are obviously sound, he did precisely what you said asimmer, took the bodybuilder's diet and made it mainstream. However, he forgot that people that read his book aren't bodybuilders. No one, not even most bodybuilders need three MRP's a day to lose body fat. I think that in itself is ludicris. Also, there's nothing so special about EAS's supplements that would magically give someone better results. Phillips used lack of public knowledge to prey on people's wallets with.
I think I have more gripes with the marketing of the plan than anything else. The folks in the before and after pictures are portrayed as having gone from quite out of shape to bodybuilders in 12 weeks. There is no mention that anyone took more time than that to make their transformations. If I recall correctly, the book even mentions on its cover that it is a 12 week plan. Obviously those people did NOT get those results in 12 weeks. I have hard time believing that even 24 weeks would be sufficient. Going from 250 pounds at 30%+ bodyfat to 210 pounds at 9% bodyfat takes an AWEFUL long time, no matter how good your program is.
The workout, based on the website description, is really poor as well. A single exercise, pyramiding up for each muscle group. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a beginner to do 5 sets of curls every workout when they're only doing 5 sets for their back. And where's the movement variety? Many muscle groups, particularly the back, need to be trained on multiple ranges of motion (vertical and horizontal in this case) to adequately train. Someone that only does pull downs is ignoring the rhomboids / scapulae retractors. I have a VERY difficult time believing that anyone got THAT fit on a routine with that many flaws, even with proper diet.
The routine obviously is far inferior to anything that a trainer would design. I know someone that hired a CSCS who put them on that routine. I noticed that it was a commercial workout and let the guy know. Needless to say, he felt a little more than cheated. Again, I don't take any issue with the diet's parameters, but I can't say the same about the rest of the plan.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/04/15, 06:48 PM
From what I have seen, he does offer a variety of exercises to choose from for each bodypart.
From my understanding of program design, beginners really only need to do mainly compound exercises when they first start lifting, I suppose he adds in some isolation work to round it out (most guys just want to work chest and biceps when they first start, anyhow, eh?), I don't know what his reasoning is for the reps and such, i said previously that i don't really like his workout. But I do think that it would work for a beginner, they would get results from it for a while because they haven't done anything else. And there it could be a gateway to more workouts, the search for more exercises, the desire to refine their program.
I think three shakes a day are a little overboard, but it is better than three fatty, high carb meals that they may consume otherwise, I don't know.
I am not going to argue about it, I am just saying it has helped a lot of people, he also helps the make-a wish foundation and I think he puts out a good message in his magazine.
I paged through the book again, yes, the stories in the book don't mention how many times the peoploe did the hallenge, but I knoiw when they feature competitors in the magazine it does say when they have done two or three challenges in a row to get where they are now physically.
I would also guess that many of the people who enter the challenge are off-season bodybuilders trying to win some prize money while dieting for a show (I know a guy at the gym i used to work at who did that, he would bloat himself up as much as possible and take his before pictures, and then diet for a show and take his after pictures).
What I think is cool is how many people I meet, everywhere, not just at the gym, who have doen the BFL challenge and hd a really positive experience and changed how they view their body and exercise and food.
And don't you pull your scapulae together during your pull downs? Maybe not as much as during a row, but your whole shoulder girdle area is working for pull-downs, so you are stimulating most of those muscles, if not as directly.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/15, 07:55 PM
I will look for that book tomorrow and read it .
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We must become the change we want to see.
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/04/16, 08:26 AM
Pulldowns DO work your rhomboids. Rhomboids assist in EVERY back workout. The scapula is in action EVERY single time you lift your arm over your head due to the contraction of your serratus. It would be impossible to perform pulldowns without retracting your scapula. At that point the only muscles working would be your traps most likely.
Let me get a little more technical:
RHOMBOIDS:
Action- Rhomboid major and minor muscles work together in Adduction(retraction): draw scapula toward spinal column.
Rotation downward: from the upward rotated position, they draw scapula into downward rotation.
Elevation: slight upward movement accompanying adduction.
(Manual of Structural Kineseology 14th Edition Thompson-Floyd 2001)
You see, you cannot perform a back movement, whether it be pulldowns or rows, without calling in the rhomboids, scapula, traps, lats, posterior deltoid, serratus, Teres major and minor. ALL of our muscles in our body are interconnected in one way or another whether we like it or not. Mind/body connection anyone?
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2003/04/16, 09:16 AM
I think Mutt has made a vaild point..not every plan is going to work for everybody, Individual differences.Maybe that is the problem I have with the resistance training portion of the program. From her perspective,ASimmer dosen't like the resistance training program either. And I swear the diet plan is a variation of the diabetic exchange/diet. So maybe Phillips is a good motivator and lets say his supplements are of a decent quality for those that wish to use them,so maybe his book should focus on those aspects and offer the diet/exercise program as a choice or option and let people know his plan is not the only road to health and fitness.That in of itself would also be a public service. Isn't that why we all became trainers, to educate and help other people become healthier?
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2003/04/16, 11:20 AM
But if you give people too many options they tend to not pick any of them and resort to their old, familiar way of eating. i think BFL works for most people because it is so laid out, do this, do this and do this. t is all really common sense to health/fitness professionals, but I have found that people I give general guidelines to don't do as well as people who i give very specific diets (including daily meal plans) to. Most people don't want to spend the time figuring out how mauch and when and what, hand them a list and it takes the guesswork out for them, y'know? This usuually leads them to further investigate what foods are comprised of and how to continue eating healthily, but to lay down that habit takes a while and a specific plan seems to do the trick with my clients, especially because they get results so quickly when they follow the plan.
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
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2003/04/16, 12:31 PM
The problem I have in my locality is personal trainers can not legally prescribe diet programs, only licensed nutritionist and dieticians can do so. We can give general outlines such as the food pyramid or use my facility's program, which costs extra..so I send my clients back to their docs for the diabetic diet plan or whatever the doc sees fit to prescribe or to the local nutritionist.So I am kind of stuck!!
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2003/04/16, 01:55 PM
Yeah, and we have seen how great the food pyramind is and how smart our nations dietiticians and nutritionists tend to be(sarcasim). Maybe we can't perscribe a diet plan, but I can't think of one trainer as well as myself that has never given out diet "suggestions" to there clients. Who says it has to be a perscription, more of a recommendation.
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2003/04/16, 02:53 PM
That is why when I make "suggestions", I want to be darn sure of the safety, effectiveness and feasibilty of any program.I sure dont' want to be held liable when a client has problems with a diet plan I recommnend.One thing my good old grandpa once said to me was don't beleive everything you read.. and my professors taught us the same thing, as well as, critical thinking skills. I have taken to task my professors, research articles etc. in my efforts to understand and learn the many avenues of fitness and health.Keep your avenues open dahayz and don't lump all dieticians, nutritonists in the same group.
Dahayz,what year of school are you currently enrolled as..junior,senior?
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2003/04/16, 03:18 PM
I didn't mean to sound argumentative, anyone. Although his plan has been more effective, I see it being marketed with the same hyped up before and afters that supplements like Hydroxycut use. I do realize that you have to go to extremes in marketing these days, but I still don't agree with it.
I also didn't mean to imply that pull downs DIDN'T work the rhomboids, just that, in my opinion, if pull downs are all you did, you wouldn't get adequate work for them. Your rhomboid strength should follow your pectoral strength (actually vice versa, but you get the point) and the emphasis in vertical pulling movements in the lats (particularly with pull overs). If a novice were to choose the pull down and use only that movement for the back, I think that would not be adequate. Although, in 12 weeks, the differences would be minimal. However, just because it's adequate doesn't mean that it should be forgiven for being insufficient.
As for the MRP use, yes, they are better than the alternative greasy carb meal, but that's not part of the plan. The guidelines lay out what's good to eat and what's not, and I think requiring Myoplex and allowing it are two different things. The intentions, in my mind, are obvious.
Simmer, it hadn't occured to me that off season bodybuilders might participate in those contests, though it certainly makes a lot of sense.
As I said, anything that inspires that many people to get in shape can't be all bad. If nothing else, it has increased public awareness of fitness and nutrition. However, as I said, I think it's sold as a panacea, as everything you need, when it is not.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2005/04/20, 01:28 AM
I have lost 5o pounds ...I loved the Program...
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2005/04/20, 05:59 AM
congratulations.....the hard part is keeping it off...stick with it...
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2005/04/25, 11:27 AM
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Quoting from mackfactor:
Obviously those people did NOT get those results in 12 weeks. I have hard time believing that even 24 weeks would be sufficient. Going from 250 pounds at 30%+ body fat to 210 pounds at 9% body fat takes an AWFUL long time, no matter how good your program is.
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Then do some research! Here I'll help start you out :)
http://www.bodyforlife-tracker.com/latestphotos.cfm
http://groups.msn.com/BodyforLifeMommies/shoebox.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/BodyForLifeWomen/shoebox.msnw
http://www.leanandstrong.org/PHP-Nuke-7.4/html/modules.php?name=coppermine
http://www.bodychangers.com/interviews.shtml
http://www.leanandstrong.com/ This site is no longer functional but you can look through all the transformations.
BFL does work, and for some it doesn't work as well as it does for others. Why? Because everyone is different and different things work for different people.
I didn't have stellar results myself even though I was 100% on all three times I did it (not back to back). It just wasn't a hard enough workout for me, but as for the eating plan? I've been doing it going on 3yrs now. With all my medical problems it has been a godsend. Since ya'll say it's nothing more than the diabetic diet not ONE of my doctors or the nutritionist pointed me to it so thankfully Bill Phillips put it out there for those of us that didn't know a thing about nutrition and exercise. I wouldn't be in a functional place without the BFL plan. I would also still be sitting around at a VERY unhealthy 30+ body fat percentage starving myself and sitting on my butt doing absolutely no exercise, and probably would have started smoking again.
He has given something good to the MAJORITY of the public. It's a starting point that in a lot of instances makes people go out there looking for even more information such as myself :)
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Damselfly
Quit being a sheep, they only get led to slaughter
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2006/04/14, 09:48 PM
Every one seems to have a great understanding of what there doing! But how do you chose the right course for the individual. I started the BFL program and had limited success, fair enough I had keyhole surgery near the start of the program. But after that the program didn't get under my skin. I like what the man has to say, but I dont know if its the right direction. How do you make that decision. With that much choice out there its very confusing.
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