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Max Effort mistakes

gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2006/12/12, 02:45 PM Let's post topics and articles on mistakes people make on max effort day. Here is a good start: Beginner Mistakes - Part I: Max Effort Progression By Jim Wendler When I first started training using the Westside methods, I would often end my max effort exercise and feel like I didn’t do anything. Sure, I maxed out and strained, but I never felt like I did that much. Now that I am stronger, max effort days are extremely hard and painful. I hadn’t thought about this phenomenon until recently when Dave Tate and I talked one night after a seminar. We were talking about our training logs and how they would influence people. I had mentioned that many times on a max effort day, I would perform the core exercise, one other exercise and leave. I was unsure if this was the correct message to send the younger lifter. He quickly pointed out that because of my present strength level I had done a quite a bit of work on the core exercise. Even though I worked up to a 1RM, the total amount of weight lifted was large and what was needed to bring up my strength. He had me grab a piece of paper and told me to write down what I did for my max effort bench day. 3 Board Press (straight weight) 2 sets of 5 repetitions @ 45lbs 2x5 @ 95 2x5 @ 135 1x5 @ 185 1x3 @ 225 1x3 @ 275 1x3 @ 315 1x3 @ 365 1x1 @ 405 1x1 @ 455 1x1 @ 495 1x1 @ 525 1x1 @ 550 Dave then told me to add up the total weight that I lifted that day. This amounted to 9645lbs. Three lifts were done over 90% of my max. He then mentioned that too many times a younger, weaker lifter will make huge jumps between attempts and thus the total amount of weight lifted is significantly reduced. Here is a sample workout of what I would use to do. 3 Board Press (straight weight, previous personal record was 355lbs) 135x3 185x3 225x1 275x1 315x1 365x1 The total amount of weight lifted is 2140lbs with only one lift over 90%. This is a far cry from what I am doing now. Of course my current strength level will dictate that I will lift more weight during a session. But how could I have increased my volume on the max effort day without sacrificing strength? Here is what I should have done. 2x5 @ 45 2x5 @ 95 1x3 @ 135 1x3 @ 175 1x3 @ 205 1x3 @ 235 1x1 @ 265 1x1 @ 295 1x1 @ 325 1x1 @ 345 1x1 @ 365 This now equals 5955lbs with three lifts in the 90+% range. This is over 2 ½ times the weight lifted from the previous example. This is a great way for a beginner to increase his strength and work capacity. These smaller jumps were less than 10% of my 1RM. In the first example, I would jump 40 or 50lbs between sets. This represents a 15% jump. If I were to do that now it would be over 80lbs between attempts. There is no way I could do that, so why should I expect a beginner to handle that? I made this mistake and I suspect that many other young lifters are doing it now. Take smaller jumps and make bigger gains.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2006/12/12, 02:47 PM Rushing max effort day is another common mistake I see.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2006/12/12, 04:37 PM I reread this the other day, efs resurected this article, and with good reason. It was a huge mistake I have made. -------------- Iron and chalk.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2006/12/12, 05:46 PM im just curious about my progression here. 45x5 135x5 155x5 175x5 195x5 215x5 235x3 Thats what i did. My PR has been about 235 for while so i actually smashed a PR, but i was goin for 3rm cuz i feel i need more volume on chest. I also realize that maybe i should throw like 90x5 before the jump to 135. but right now that is like a 5305 total there... what do you all think?
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2006/12/12, 07:36 PM If you are going for a 3 rep max then stick to triples. Those 5s probably took a way from a better 3 rep performance. Try this: 45 x 5 95 x 3 135 x 3 165 x 3 185 x 3 205 x 3 215 x 3 225 x 3 235 x 3 if you kill this last 3 then try another set. If you feel like you maxed out your 3 but would still like to hit a couple more sets try this: 245 x 1 250 x 1 255 x 1 Depending on where I am in my cycle I love 3s followed by 1s.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2006/12/12, 08:17 PM i agree with them taking away but i was going for Joe DeFranco style ME day with more volume. I was pretty happy with what i hit, but i will try out your progression next ME day.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2006/12/14, 12:45 PM Another big beginner mistake, is not realizing they are a beginner. A beginner does not need the same training plan as a high level athlete. In fact, a beginner will do better on a beginning program, then he will on one written for someone looking to bust out of a 3 year plateau. -------------- Iron and chalk.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2006/12/15, 09:21 AM i completely agree. i myself had trouble with that in the beginning as i was trying to get into the big boy programs when i didnt know what the heck i was doing...
ecle5c Posts: 1,312 Joined: 2003/07/10	2006/12/22, 10:12 AM I don't consider myself a "high level athlete" but am by no means a beginner. I read in another post in this forum that Gatormade said that on ME day you should aim for at least 7 sets. This guy above is doing 13 sets, understandable he is a much more seasoned lifter but still. How many sets are ideal for your ME day?
ecle5c Posts: 1,312 Joined: 2003/07/10	2006/12/22, 10:14 AM Here is what I did for my previous ME upper day: 45x5 115x3 125x3 135x3 155x3 165x3 175x1 185x1 190x1 (I've shot fore 195 the past 2 weeks and missed so I figured I would drop 5 lbs and try) 195x0 My 1rm is 190 so I have 3 lifts at or near 90%, does this progression look alright?
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2006/12/22, 11:12 AM You've done 3 sets than. If 190 is your max, then a lot of those sets are still warm up sets. -------------- Iron and chalk.
ecle5c Posts: 1,312 Joined: 2003/07/10	2006/12/22, 11:20 AM So are you saying that isn't enough? Or that I should be doing less "warm-up" sets and more over 90%? This setup has been working for me, in a relatively short time my max has jumped. I had to decrease the weight, improve form and proceed from there. This is a similar style that I use for max squat, and max DL. If this isn't a good progression, by all means I'm open for advice. I like to learn.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2006/12/22, 11:53 AM I'm saying that when gator lists his 13 sets, not all of them are working sets. If it is working for you, then you have found something your body responds to. I generally like around 3 sets at 90%+. -------------- Iron and chalk.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2006/12/22, 12:07 PM It depends on how I feel too. If I feel really good then I may get 6-9 sets at or above 90%. Some days between 3-6 at or above. Don't forget that I have been training hard for 20 years and need different stimulus for improvement.
coolnatedawg Posts: 813 Joined: 2005/03/09	2007/03/06, 11:12 PM tendonitis perhaps? but kind of wrong place to post this..
tapr Posts: 23 Joined: 2006/12/13	2007/03/15, 12:04 PM a question that's a little out of context here but do you all have workout partners???, I workout alone right now and it sux i can't max on anything. There's no way of doing 1 or even 3 rep maxs without a partner right? im pretty sure that's a stupid question haha
tapr Posts: 23 Joined: 2006/12/13	2007/03/15, 12:07 PM sorry another question here, if this is your day to do chest, how many exercises (flat bench, 3board press) would you do for chest, 2,3...? and do you do more for chest or the same for every body part?
Pemdas Posts: 973 Joined: 2004/07/22	2007/03/22, 09:39 AM tapr...I work out alone for the most part. I don't need a spot for squats and deads. I use the safety bars for squat and I can just drop the deadlift. Bench is the only exercise I need a spot for. I have come to know some of the people that are on the same schedule as me. I usually just ask one of them for a spot on my last set. You could do really low lockouts in the power rack. Set the safety just above your chest. You might not touch your chest, but you should be pretty close. I imagine it would be pretty close to a one-board press You could also do db press instead. How many exercises you do depends on you program. Right now I am doing a full body program, so I only do one chest movement per day. If i had just a chest day, I would probably do 2 maybe 3 if i was feeling strong and maybe a tricep exercise. Example of back, leg, chest split: Note: I would swap exercises every 4 to 6 weeks. This just an example of what I might do. Squat SLDL some unilateral work Flat Bench Overhead press Dips (weighted) DL Rows Pull-ups I would also put some heavy ab work in. I don't like arm exercies. I had/have tendinosis/tennis elbow, so strait arm work tends to aggravate it. Plus, I have seen more benifits from dips and pullups. -------------- Light bulb shaped people are easy to push over!
aaronaffan Posts: 1 Joined: 2009/11/18	2010/10/06, 08:24 AM Where can I find a good beginner workout program? ============ Quoting from wrestler125: I reread this the other day, efs resurected this article, and with good reason. It was a huge mistake I have made. =============