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2004/10/24, 10:37 PM
You learn something new everyday. I was told that you have both types of muscle fiber in your body, but what do they mean and how do they work?
From what I have heard, one responds better to explosive training, and the other from higher rep training. Is this correct?
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- Its never about how much you can lift, or how many reps you do. Its just about doing it, and doing it right.
- If your hungry all the time, your not eating enough. And anyways, being hungry sucks.
~Brad~
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2004/10/24, 10:48 PM
Yes fast twitch,and slow twitch,and invoulntary twitch,fast twitch is speed, explosive,then you have your endurance slow twitch fibers,
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2004/10/24, 11:00 PM
Yep, you actually have fast twitch type 2A and 2B fibers, plus slow twitch. Even the smallest muscle group has well over 100,000 fibers.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/10/25, 12:20 AM
So if say you mainly use explosive, heavy training, will your fast twitch fibers grow more then your slow twitch, leaving you stronger when pushing for low reps, but weaker when it comes to high rep workouts?
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- Its never about how much you can lift, or how many reps you do. Its just about doing it, and doing it right.
- If your hungry all the time, your not eating enough. And anyways, being hungry sucks.
~Brad~
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2004/10/25, 11:06 AM
It is conventional wisdom in bb that you train the fast twitch fibers as they have the most potential for growth.
There is some evidence and rational thinking would lead to the fact that if that is the case and what you do, you may be missing out on half or maybe more of your muscle fibers, thus tons of growth potential. Unless you are fast twitch dominant, most folks are pretty equally divided. The problem with training slow twitch fibers is it take very high reps to have a chance to get them to twitch, and then you still really don't know. It may take up to 50-100 reps for instance to really stimulate them, and do the respond with growth?? Really don't know, but it is alot of wasted time in the gym if not, and will take away from you highest growth capability workout.
A happy medium may be to shock the muscles often, things like massive drop sets, etc. The more fibers you can recruit to twitch together, the more potential for growth.
A for instance is something like this....say you are holding something up to keep it from falling on your best friend until he is clear. For some reason, he is slow getting out, and you have to keep holding the object. As you immediately lift it, your fast twitch fibers will jump into action(along with some slow twitch but very little), as you hold this object it gets heavier and heavier, and more muscle fibers are recruited and twitch together. Hold it longer till it feels like you can't do it anymore, and still hold it, and even more fibers are recruited(this is akin to slow twitch fibers). Doing this often..recruiting as many fibers as possible to twitch together will "train" them to be recruited more easily. It is a brutal method of training, but may be worth a try. Not for the squeamish.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/10/25, 11:28 AM
Hmmm... Interesting.
The reason I ask this is because I have noticed that when it comes to pushing out a lot of reps on a lower weight, I don't usually get as many as I would expect (in comparison to my heavy weight, low reps).
Could my slow twitch be under trained, and therefore leave me with less muscle endurance?
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- Its never about how much you can lift, or how many reps you do. Its just about doing it, and doing it right.
- If your hungry all the time, your not eating enough. And anyways, being hungry sucks.
~Brad~
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2004/10/25, 12:40 PM
I thought body builders usually trined more slow twitch fibers. BB's want more defination right? So does that mean heavy weights, under 5reps still can "define" a muscle, if so why do 15 reps with flys......why not just do 3,2 or even 1? I'm a lil confused?
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....I'm probably in my underwear typing this......or maybe not!
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2004/10/25, 02:28 PM
Optimal rep range for hypretrophy to occur in predominately fast twitch(the muscles more likely to gain size) is in the 9-12 rep range.
A rep range of say 3-10 tends ot give you a greater balance of muscle thickness. Will greatly increase neural efficiency also.
Strength gains in other rep ranges and improvements in neural efficiency occur with the 3-5 rep range.
Capillary density increases with rep ranges above 15....muscle endurance comes into play here(if this is what you are striving for).
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/10/25, 06:13 PM
I don't really have time to get into this right now, I'll post more on this when I get a chance. In the mean time pleas read the thread titled '?' in this forum. I'll bump it to the to for you. When I get a chance I'll expand on what I explained in that thread about muscle fiber types as applied to training.
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2004/10/28, 12:35 PM
In the 3rd paragraph, it's suppposed to say that cleans & snatches focus on developing the FAST twitch motor units almost exclusivey.
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2004/10/29, 12:06 PM
so is there really one "better" for size? or are they interrelated?
I know size does not dictact strength and vice versa......So is their really any point going above 15 reps? I thought that was the "get cut" reps?
I'm really realy confused?
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....I'm probably in my underwear typing this......or maybe not!
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2004/10/30, 01:39 PM
:surprised: I thought I lost that post for a second.
Can anything possibly done about these automatic sign outs? I may not know much about website technology, but I know what I don't like! :(
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2004/10/30, 04:28 PM
Nice post:big_smile:
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Quoting from null:
Get cut by by dieting, not by low weight-high rep regimens. Why would you want to lose strength for the sake of leaning out if it's not necessary?
While fast twitch fibers tend to be much larger than slow twitch fibers, both will grow in size in response to heavy-low rep (12 reps or less) lifting regimens. If increasing muscle mass is you only goal, there is no point in trying to train one fiber type preferentially from the other.
As for developing muscular endurance, sure you can train it in the weight room with extremely high reps, but why bother? If you need alot of muscular endurance for a particular activity or sport, train those specific muscles by doing that particular activity rather wasting time in the weight room trying to dupicate those movements. This approach will train the relevant muscles much more specifically than weights, as well as reduce boredom.
Use your time in the weight room for strength and/or power. Having said that you may occasionally want to do a high rep set now and again to augment a workout for the sake of shocking the muscles, but not as a cornerstone of your workout. One example would be as BB1 preeviously mentioned is the use of drop sets.
What I like about a drop sets is that you can do an exercise with the intial sets being like you normally would until you get to your heaviest sets, then finish the exercise with one or 2 drop sets using that heaviest weight as astarting point. This way you are training BOTH strength and endurance. Drop sets should only be used now and again for a particular exercise since the combination of volume and intensity would quickly lead to overtraining if done regularly.
As I mentioned earlier, if you are trying to develop POWER you must train using high velocity movements. This will preferentially train fast twitch motor units. Keep in mind that most weight room exercises cannot be done safely at high velocities, in fact most weight rooms do not even have rubber plates or lifting platforms.
The practical application of this is that most sports require a combination of muscuular endurance, muscular strength, and muscular power. While these are 3 distinctly different concepts, they are interrelated. Different sports need these components in different proportions. The need to train all three in balance without overtraining, or having the training of one component negatively affect the other 2 is both art and science. This is where the concept of periodization of training comes in, but that is a whole thread in and of itself.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/10/30, 07:14 PM
so doing flys w/ like say 15 or so is usless, and even do heavy weight on isolation excercises? Liek kick back, flys, side, front and rear laterals?
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....I'm probably in my underwear typing this......or maybe not!
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2004/10/30, 07:25 PM
Above 15 reps starts to train more for endurance. It is not that it doesn't do any good, it is what you are training for.
I believe and personally always do every exercise as heavy as possible. I am not a fan of light reps, in my opinion pretty much useless and a precursor to muscle loss! Drop sets are key here, as you go to failure with your heavy weight, and failure is key, then to continue the set drop for instance 25% of the weight without rest, this will continue the set with the muscle having no idea the weight has been reduced. The key again is complete failure at your heavy weight. I like to use these drop sets in this manner to make my 9-12 rep range. For instance if you can only do 4 with a very heavy weight, at complete failure of 4, drop the weight and continue on with drops as many as it takes to reach the rep range you desire.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/10/30, 07:27 PM
ok, so 12 under is safe?
btw i like drop sets........i'm a biggest fan of rest paus though
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....I'm probably in my underwear typing this......or maybe not!
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2004/10/30, 07:33 PM
At a rep range of 5-10, myofibril, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will mainly occur.(growth plus strength gains)
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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