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2003/07/29, 11:35 AM
Are you supposed to take protein supplement on the days you don't lift?
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2003/07/29, 12:27 PM
I only take whey after a workout. It is to expensive for me to consume whey shakes 7days a week. But I do take other supplements as well as regular food source protein throughout the week. I would believe that what ravenwolf said makes sense because whey is absorbed faster and is good for directly after a workout.
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2003/07/29, 12:57 PM
Thats what I thought. Plus protein supplements are a pretty hefty price tag for teens like myself. My other question was: How much protein should you take right after your workout? The protein I have now (GNC Mega Whey) has 40g protein. But I was wondering if I switched to another brand of protein that only had around 20grams of protein to a serving should I take it twice?
Thanks very much for your help
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2003/07/29, 01:22 PM
One does not need supplementation, supplements are were first made for body builders who needed to take in more than 250grams per day, that is a whole lot of food....then, it became more commercial, where people use it for ease, trust me if you eat sensibly and have a meal and snack every 2-4 hours, supplements are not needed...It is when your true muscular body weight is in excess of 200lbs that you COULD use supplements, in place of eating...under 200, you should just eat right but if time doesn't allow a tuna sandwich, then grab the supplement....under 200 it's not needed...hope this helps
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/07/29, 01:24 PM
Get your protein sources from whole foods if possible. I do a whey on off days, just because I get tired of chicken breast, and a nice chocolate shake sure tastes great. Put a tbsp. of flax oil or heavy cream in it to slow down digestion.
And dukeben18, have 25% of your daily protein needs post training.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/29, 01:28 PM
Geez, I think I would have to debate that one. Only above 200 lbs.?? Not everyone is a heavyweight, nor will they ever be. Does this mean they don't train hard and need adequate amounts of protein? What about post training? Does not the hard training 150 lb. guy need protein immediately as much as the 200 lb. guy? Yes, in most cases, get your protein from whole foods. But there is a time and place for protein supplements, and not only for 200lb.+ guys.
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Quoting from richardjst:
One does not need supplementation, supplements are were first made for body builders who needed to take in more than 250grams per day, that is a whole lot of food....then, it became more commercial, where people use it for ease, trust me if you eat sensibly and have a meal and snack every 2-4 hours, supplements are not needed...It is when your true muscular body weight is in excess of 200lbs that you COULD use supplements, in place of eating...under 200, you should just eat right but if time doesn't allow a tuna sandwich, then grab the supplement....under 200 it's not needed...hope this helps
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/29, 01:52 PM
Can you guys answer my second question:
How much protein should you take right after your workout? The protein I have now (GNC Mega Whey) has 40g protein. But I was wondering if I switched to another brand of protein that only had around 20grams of protein to a serving should I take it twice?
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2003/07/29, 01:56 PM
And 1 more question: When is the best time to consumer proteins that aren't lean (ie. peanut butter or peanuts)???
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2003/07/29, 02:02 PM
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Quoting from ravenwolf:
I agree with bb1. I get tired of chicken all the time so that is why I do a MRP but I still try to get most of my proteins and what not from whole foods.
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That's what I'm saying it's relitively easy to consume 200grams of protein from a regular diet, its not truly needed....fast absorbing or not, yes I agree though, they are great meal replacements, but they aren't truly necessary, and using them religiously would be ok, but you dont need to.
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/07/29, 07:53 PM
richardjst, you are wrong about the protein. I don't think you understand the digestion and uptake capabilities here right after your workout. Blood sugars are lowered, insulin is sensitive, it is a super time for protein uptake. If you wait till you get home and eat a meal, you missed it.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/29, 08:56 PM
So you are saying I should consumer my protein shake while I am at the gym, right before heading home?
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2003/07/29, 09:32 PM
Yes, the sooner the better. A bit of some simple carbs with it would be good, like a gatorade.
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Quoting from dukeben18:
So you are saying I should consumer my protein shake while I am at the gym, right before heading home?
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/30, 03:09 PM
Now how many grams of protein should I take right after the workout? 20 or 40 grams?
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2003/07/30, 04:18 PM
but bb1fit....if a lifter weighing in at 165 eats sensibly and from the correct foods through out the day taking in around 170-200 grams of protein what would be the point in religiously taking a shake in after a workout....unless he didn't have time...i know that it absorbs quicker and it can absorb a few more grams...but doug peterson and some of his lifting buddies(world powerlifting contenders), plus 3 nutrition store owners, and one gym owner told me that 20-30 grams is all a person can digest in 2-3 hours, may that as it be after a good workout that only raises to 50 grams at the most....for a die hard lifter that has trouble taking in that many calories in a day because he ways 200+, that is a key window of opportunity......the best way to get something in your system at that time is yes, whey protein isolate, not casein, not hard foods from the table. But for someone wishing to put on muscular body weight weighing 160lbs, a rounded meal would provide more nutrients as well as enough protein through out the day to take them to the next level.
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/07/30, 04:28 PM
Now, if these numbers of grams/2-3hours is wrong please inform me, that would throw off my whole dietary schedule....if that were true that would mean that something fishy is going on in the Farmer's Heaven.
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/07/30, 06:42 PM
When a theory becomes seen as conventional wisdom, it is a very hard to dispel. Separating fact from fiction must be done. I am surprised if these guys are seasoned lifters that they say that. Now, why would a 160 lb. guy need something different than a 200 lb. guy? Are not both doing the same thing? Do not both have digestive systems? Do not both have training have the same effect on them? If blood sugars need to be restored in the 200+ guy, why wouldn't they need to be restored in the 160lb. guy? Isn't he trying to recouperate from training and build muscle too? Think about those things. And the 20-30 gr. thing, give this some thought. They are saying that a 160lb. guy can handle the same amount of protein as a 200lb. + guy? Ok, so the 160 lb. guy needs 160 gr., and the 200lb + guy needs 200 +, who often is the 200lb. guy going to have to eat if he can only get 20 gr. at a time? Geez, seems like they are dispelling their own argument to me.
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Quoting from richardjst:
but bb1fit....if a lifter weighing in at 165 eats sensibly and from the correct foods through out the day taking in around 170-200 grams of protein what would be the point in religiously taking a shake in after a workout....unless he didn't have time...i know that it absorbs quicker and it can absorb a few more grams...but doug peterson and some of his lifting buddies(world powerlifting contenders), plus 3 nutrition store owners, and one gym owner told me that 20-30 grams is all a person can digest in 2-3 hours, may that as it be after a good workout that only raises to 50 grams at the most....for a die hard lifter that has trouble taking in that many calories in a day because he ways 200+, that is a key window of opportunity......the best way to get something in your system at that time is yes, whey protein isolate, not casein, not hard foods from the table. But for someone wishing to put on muscular body weight weighing 160lbs, a rounded meal would provide more nutrients as well as enough protein through out the day to take them to the next level.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/30, 08:40 PM
Cortisol literally converts muscle tissue to proteins for conversion into glucose. This is your body’s way of producing energy when all readily available energy (glucose) and stored forms (glycogen) of energy have been expended. To compensate for this depletion of energy your body will go into a process called gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.
So, as cortisol increases, and insulin decreases.
This scenario presents several needs to our starving bodies. In order to get maximum results from our workout we must turn these glycogen and protein deficits into glycogen and protein surpluses immediately afterward.
So the two most important components of muscle recovery are replenishing the glycogen fuel burned during the workout and rebuilding the muscle proteins that are destroyed during the workout.
These processes are highly time-sensitive: the sooner they are allowed to begin, the faster they proceed and the more likely they will be completed in time for the next training session.
So, do you think that a 160lb. guy does not need to do this, but a 200 lb. guy does???
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/30, 10:15 PM
Quick Question: I usually lift and then do cardio. Should I take the protein shake right after lifting and then do cardio? I always thought doing cardio on an empty stomach was better?
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2003/07/30, 11:02 PM
Do your cardio, have your protein when finished with your workout.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/30, 11:56 PM
Cool, i get it....but one more question how does protein shakes affect blood sugar levels....is it nitrogen balance or what is it?
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/07/31, 10:04 AM
Protein shake in itself will not effect blood sugars. That is why a simple carb along with it is helpful to bring them up, elicit an insulin response, and drive nutrients into the muscles. A huge spike is not needed, which may cause the pancreas to put out extra insulin, which is counterproductive at any time, and especially if you are trying to burn fat.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/31, 11:19 AM
This is a WONDERFUl thread. It has given me a lot of information. I have been waiting until I get home from working out before having my protein and carb. It only takes about 7-8 minutes to get home but I could be consuming my protein and carb in that time. Thanks so much!!
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Gramma
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2003/08/05, 03:25 PM
What I have learned from the postings is that Myoplex produces the best shakes and protein shakes should be consumed, with a simple carb, as soon as possible after a workout.
What if you have problems meeting your protein goals, should you consume more than one shake (42 gr protein) a day? If so, when?
What about resting days, should you still consume shakes or force thy-self to eat more protein through chicken? If so, when?
I’m a newbie – your postings have been very informative! Thank you.
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Say good-bye to the weight and unhappiness – Bring on 125!
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2003/08/05, 06:31 PM
dmpease, If you you have trouble meeting your protein needs, a shake is fine. If it is pure whey though, have something with it to slow it down, it digests way too fast and will probably never make it out of the gut. Some cottage cheese is a good choice, or mix a tbsp. or 2 of flax oil with it, or even olive oil. If you are not dieting, heavy cream is a good option, not to mention the taste.
Have your normal diet on off days, these are days you need nutrition. You do not grow in the gym, you grow at rest. Just do not have the insulin spike, this is something you want to avoid on off days, and all days with the possible exception of post workout. Then, just a mild simple carb like dextrose will work fine(even gatorade). It is simply the rate at which glycogen is restored in the end, the initial surge is to get blood sugars restored to normal levels and help curb cortisol which your body produces as a mechanism to being overworked, stressed, etc.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/05, 06:33 PM
In the above post I actually meant maltodextrin rather than dextrose. Dextrose is much faster, and will result in an immediate spike. This is debateable, and if dieting, not a good choice.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/05, 08:11 PM
I heard that when you take a protein shake after a workout and it gives you gas means that your body is not absorbing the protein. Is this true?
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2003/08/05, 08:55 PM
Many things will give you gas, one being inferior protein sources. If your protein for instance is high in lactose and you are lactose intolerant, or close to it, this will give you gas.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/05, 10:31 PM
Try not getting a milk derived protein, opt for other products...
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If hard work and persistence were the keys to success, most people would opt to pick the lock.~Dick
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2003/08/06, 08:31 AM
Ron - bb1fit,
Thank you for your recommendations, they were exactly what I needed to know.
However, I do have a few more questions - what products do you recommend for protein shakes, pure whey shakes and maltodextrin consumption?
Do you take maltodextrin in pill, powder or food form?
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Say good-bye to the weight and unhappiness – Bring on 125!
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2003/08/06, 10:13 AM
There is a product called Mass Maker that I really like. You can get it a www.vitaglo.com. Take according to bodyweight. This is awesome stuff. I took this stuff right up to my last contest with great results. What other stuff can you take called Mass Maker and still diet??? LOL...Use some pure whey with it. It has protein in it too. Excellent blend of carbs, only like 22 dollars a jug. You can buy malto separate there too if you like.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/08, 06:14 PM
"So the two most important components of muscle recovery are replenishing the glycogen fuel burned during the workout and rebuilding the muscle proteins that are destroyed during the workout."
My question is: How do you replenish the glycogen fuel burned during your workout?? Is that where the gatordae comes in?
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2003/08/09, 11:58 AM
I was wondering about breakfast. I know after waking up your bodies blood sugar is pretty low needs to be brought back up after 8+ hours of sleeping. What should a person do to slow down catabolism at night?
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2004/01/26, 07:38 PM
Bump - I just thought this was a really good thread.
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2004/01/31, 07:56 PM
What other type of carbs could you have with your post workout shake. I'm thinking about getting some maltodextrin powder, but would plain sugar be ok? For instance, if I threw a couple of teaspoons of sugar into my post workout shake to get that insulin spike. I can't think of any other type of simple carb.
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2005/01/23, 06:13 AM
Is a gatorade enough to restore your sugar levels after a workout? I drink a bottle of gatorade, then, when I get home, I mix a tablespoon of glucose with my whey protein.
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2005/01/29, 06:26 PM
from what i've read, grape juice is a good simple carb for post workout.
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