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2005/02/27, 01:45 AM
I'm on cutting cycle right now and i'm about 4 weeks in now and i'm noticing a loss of strength,I'm guessing this is to expected since i'm loosing both fat and muscle and taking in less calories in a day than i burn..right? Is there anything i can do to combat this with any supplements such as creatine or CVM Xtreme which i still have yet to use or is this just part of the process?
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2005/02/27, 04:04 AM
justin take Fish Oil it helps spare muscle...and I am guessing you're probably taking 1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight...to help spare muscle...also BCAAs help during this phase...(leucine, isoleucine, valine)...glutamine might also be helpful...
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2005/02/27, 10:39 AM
have you tried carb cycling? I've done that a few times with very good sucess.......and no loose in strength.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/27, 12:31 PM
It is normal/inevitable to lose strength on a cutting diet. The suggestion of carb cycling is a good one, I posted a sample carb cycle diet I do in response to another question you asked. At some point with lack of glucose from external sources, the body resorts to muscle tissue for its first priority, glucose for the brain. It is almost impossible for it to use fats for this purpose. This is where heavy supplementation comes in. Creatine will assist, this is why I use it always during a cut, and BCAA's during training can help save lean tissue. If you can spare the money, Muscle Synergy by Beverly is awesome, I actually got stronger on my last contest diet using it. It is expensive, but works. As far as fish oil, you should be having that in your diet anyway at this point, it will take up some of the calorie "slack" from dropping carbs.
The mental aspect of losing strength is hard to deal with, you must realize though if you are still going as heavy as possible, that you are still working the muscle. You are doing lots of cardio also, which is another strength depelter. You may want to drop back on your cardio and let your diet do the work. How much are you losing per week? Your diet may not be adequate.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/27, 01:08 PM
Here is my diet right now, it is one that you made up for me a while ago Ron.
Breakfast-1 cup oatmeal 5 eggwhites 1 sc. protein
PWO protein drink simple carbs
PPWO meal-52g. cooked chicken, 1 cup broccoli with 2 fish oil capsules adn 1\2 cup baked bean baked beans(check sugar in these if they are the canned type)black eye peas will work well.(Post cardio meal is ground beef baked beans,broccolli and fish oil)
Lunch-3 1\2 oz. steak 2 oz. whole wheat pasta 1 cup veggies
snack-6 oz. Tuna with 1/2 cup brown rice 1 cup veggies
dinner-6 oz. chicken 2 cups veggies 1 tbsp. flax oil
Before bed- 1/2 c. cottage cheese 2 tbsp. flax meal 1/2 sc. of blended protein containing casein protein
So far i've been losing roughly 1lb. a week. I figured it was natural to strength as it is inevitable to lose muscle while cutting as you said. I plan on cutting for another 2 1/2 weeks then i will be taking a week off for spring break vacation. When i return i was planning on continuting my cut and adding in CVM. Do you think I should go back to a mini 4 week bulk then cut or go on as scheduled? I've upped my glutamine use to about 5 g. in the morning 10g after a workout and 5g, before bed. What exactly is muscle synergy by beverly...is it just a brand of creatine? How does carb cycling work in coorilation to saving muscle tissue, wouldn't it be the opposite? I am full of questions:) Oh yeah i've dropped my cardio to twice a week both being endurance cardio and saving HIIT for later when i hit a wall
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2005/02/27, 09:28 PM
Ok here's my revised diet for 1/2 carbs per lb. of body weight. Let me know what you think.
Breakfast-1/2 cup oatmeal 300g(A little over a cup) of eggwhites 1 sc. protein
PWO protein drink simple carbs
PPWO meal-138g. cooked chicken, 1 cup broccoli with 2 fish oil capsules adn Lunch-3 1\2 oz. steak 2/3 cup misxed veggies 4oz. extra lean(90%) ground beef
snack-12 1/2 oz. extra lean ground turkey with 2/3 cup veggies
dinner-6 oz. chicken 2 cups veggies 1 tbsp.olive oil
Before bed- 1/2 c. cottage cheese 2 tbsp. flax meal 1/2 sc. of blended protein containing casein protein
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2005/02/28, 12:17 AM
Looks like you are getting plenty of nutrients. 1 lb. per week is an excellent loss(should be all fat).
What was your diet like before this?
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Quoting from JustinE22:
Here is my diet right now, it is one that you made up for me a while ago Ron.
Breakfast-1 cup oatmeal 5 eggwhites 1 sc. protein
PWO protein drink simple carbs
PPWO meal-52g. cooked chicken, 1 cup broccoli with 2 fish oil capsules adn 1\2 cup baked bean baked beans(check sugar in these if they are the canned type)black eye peas will work well.(Post cardio meal is ground beef baked beans,broccolli and fish oil)
Lunch-3 1\2 oz. steak 2 oz. whole wheat pasta 1 cup veggies
snack-6 oz. Tuna with 1/2 cup brown rice 1 cup veggies
dinner-6 oz. chicken 2 cups veggies 1 tbsp. flax oil
Before bed- 1/2 c. cottage cheese 2 tbsp. flax meal 1/2 sc. of blended protein containing casein protein
So far i've been losing roughly 1lb. a week. I figured it was natural to strength as it is inevitable to lose muscle while cutting as you said. I plan on cutting for another 2 1/2 weeks then i will be taking a week off for spring break vacation. When i return i was planning on continuting my cut and adding in CVM. Do you think I should go back to a mini 4 week bulk then cut or go on as scheduled? I've upped my glutamine use to about 5 g. in the morning 10g after a workout and 5g, before bed. What exactly is muscle synergy by beverly...is it just a brand of creatine? How does carb cycling work in coorilation to saving muscle tissue, wouldn't it be the opposite? I am full of questions:) Oh yeah i've dropped my cardio to twice a week both being endurance cardio and saving HIIT for later when i hit a wall
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/28, 12:31 AM
This has been my diet for the past year, although i did stray away for about 3-4 weeks but i was still eating the same diet just other stuff like cheese and was drinking a bit too much beer when i first 21 but now i've been back to this diet stritly for about 4 weeks and i've noticed a drop in strength on bench. I may be due for a week off but i won't be taking tha for another 2 weeks. is loss of strength is not common with a proper diet and a steady loss of 1lb. a week?
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2005/02/28, 04:00 AM
out of curiosity, what time of day do you do your workout?
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2005/02/28, 10:58 AM
Loss of strength is something we have to deal with when dieting. Shows the power of sugars and fat, that is why I preach, with an all out bulk, you will get stronger, but sugar and fat will do it. Cut out the sugar and fat, and it gets tough. This is why I prefer to stay a bit lean, not get too crazy, learned over the years, dieting sicks in many ways strength loss being one of them. And the more love handles you acquire, the longer the misery has to go on. The natural athelete has to endure this, 9 out of 10 of the ones who don't are using gear of some sort. If you are going to stay on the diet for much longer, I would suggest starting creatine, it will help your mental state a bit.(a bit of a boost) Here is the website to explain Muscle Synergy I was speaking of. The doseage is high, and must be followed, but it truly works. http://www.bodymusclejournal.com/vol06/max_muscle_synergy.html
That diet I "gave" you, I don't remember designing a diet for you. I put up an outline of a diet, but it has to be tailored to your calorie needs. If you are losing 1 lb. per week, and doing the cardio you are doing along with it, sounds like you might be close. I would take a week off after the 7th week or thereabouts, and "reset" your metabolism with maintenance, then start back if your cutting is still necessary.
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Quoting from JustinE22:
This has been my diet for the past year, although i did stray away for about 3-4 weeks but i was still eating the same diet just other stuff like cheese and was drinking a bit too much beer when i first 21 but now i've been back to this diet stritly for about 4 weeks and i've noticed a drop in strength on bench. I may be due for a week off but i won't be taking tha for another 2 weeks. is loss of strength is not common with a proper diet and a steady loss of 1lb. a week?
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/28, 01:16 PM
Sounds good, i'm definately going to have to keep cutting my goal is to get around 12% and then bulk and try not to get crazy with it as you said bulking up alot then cutting is not fun so i want to pull myself down to a good kean stage and just hover around that. That muscle synergy looks good, i found a bottle for $32 but that's only 15 servings so i guess it is a bit expensive. I've also started carb cycling today. So I'll be able to experiment with that for about 2 weeks. Thanks for the help
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2005/02/28, 06:33 PM
Well two meals into my first carb cycling day which i'm doing 1/2g per lb. body weight. and i can already tell that i'm going to have hunger issues, is this normal? and how do i combat this. my 3rd meal which is normally 1 cup veggies 3 1/2 oz. of steak and 2 oz. pasta is now 2/3 cup veggies and 3 1/2 oz. steak i haven't gotten there yet but i can already forsee myself getting hungry. where i've dropped my carbs i've added protein to make up the calorie difference which i know does not help keep hunger at bay. any help would be much appreciated this is my first time trying the carb cycling method.
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2005/02/28, 06:45 PM
Increase your fiber. On your low carb days, your carbs should be exclusively fibrous, like oats, add in lots of veggies(2/3 cup is nothing, go at least 2 cups), beans, etc.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/28, 06:46 PM
And up your protein on low carb days also. If you do 6 oz. servings of chicken for instance, go to 8 oz. servings. I would avoid beef, the calories are too high, and you can't eat much.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/28, 06:56 PM
I know i dropped the beef. 2/3 cups is all i can eat meet my carb intake i forgot to add in my PWO shake, with that added i can practically eat nothing but protein.
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2005/02/28, 07:01 PM
n/m the PWO that works out fine, dextrose has no carbs right?
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2005/02/28, 10:19 PM
A cup of vegetables typically has 20 gr. of carbs or so. Forget your pwo shake, it should be viewed right now as a recovery shake, and yes, dextrose is carbs(sugar :))
Up your protien intake on low carb days to 1.5-2gr. On high carb days lower it to 1-1.5 gr. It does get tough, but this will show if you have what it takes to do the competition diet!
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/01, 03:03 AM
Thanks Ron, well the day didn't prove to be as tough as i thought, i was able to make thru about 2 1/2 to 3 hours between meals without a problem. I am excited to be trying the diet out, hopefuly i'll see some nice results.
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2005/03/01, 09:03 AM
this is to you justin
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Quoting from ironmonga:
out of curiosity, what time of day do you do your workout?
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2005/03/01, 01:00 PM
I work out in the morning about an hour after breakfast.
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2005/03/01, 01:39 PM
Has that always been the case or just lately. Its ok I'm not going to analyse you and give you advise its just that you look good on the pics so I like to see what different people are doing.
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2005/03/01, 03:58 PM
Yeah that's bee the case for the past year or so. Doesn't really matter whether it's in the morning or mid afternoon, just as long as you get it in, consitency is the key. Hey Ron should I not make up the carbs from my PWO on non-lifting days?
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2005/03/01, 04:14 PM
ok i'm having trouble figuring out my 2g of carbs per lb. body weight, need a little help on where to add the carbs I'm about 130g. short.
Breakfast-1 cup oatmeal 5 eggwhites 1 sc. protein
PWO protein drink simple carbs
PPWO meal-52g. cooked chicken, 1 cup broccoli with 2 fish oil capsules adn 1\2 cup baked bean baked beans(check sugar in these if they are the canned type)black eye peas will work well.(Post cardio meal is ground beef baked beans,broccolli and fish oil)
Lunch-3 1\2 oz. steak 2 oz. whole wheat pasta 1 cup veggies
snack-8 oz.. Turkey with 1 cup brown rice 1 cup veggies
dinner-6 oz. chicken 2 cups veggies 1 tbsp. flax oil
Before bed- 1/2 c. cottage cheese 2 tbsp. flax meal 1/2 sc. of blended protein containing casein protein
I still need to subtract some protein working on that now, just having trouble with the carbs.
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2005/03/01, 04:22 PM
Damn there needs to be an edit button, how do i treat my PWO shake just that as a recovery drink, because i've been trying to make those calories up on non work out days, at least the protein amount.
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2005/03/01, 06:25 PM
when i drop my protein to 1g. per lb. i have a 187 calories that i lose. But to meet my carb intake i need 380g. of carbs which equals an increase of 560 calories minus the 187 from the drop of protein that brings the total to 370 extra calories. Is this supposed to be the point of carb cycling. Or am i totally off.
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2005/03/01, 10:51 PM
Just fit in a meal as needed. In your normally scheduled timeframe.
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Quoting from JustinE22:
Hey Ron should I not make up the carbs from my PWO on non-lifting days?
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/01, 10:53 PM
Carbs are protein sparing. Now, just because it is a high carb day, this does not mean anything goes! Make them clean, and spread out throughout your meals.(oh, and drop your fats, as you will not need it with the increased carbs).
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Quoting from JustinE22:
when i drop my protein to 1g. per lb. i have a 187 calories that i lose. But to meet my carb intake i need 380g. of carbs which equals an increase of 560 calories minus the 187 from the drop of protein that brings the total to 370 extra calories. Is this supposed to be the point of carb cycling. Or am i totally off.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/02, 03:32 AM
sounds good Ron, what does that mean "carbs are protein sparing" all my carbs are clean as from above, so that won't be a problem.
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2005/03/02, 11:18 AM
Simply that with more carbs, your protein intake doesn't have to do everything(be used for energy, glycogen for brain and muscles, etc.) because you have carbs to do that. In the absence of carbs or relative lack of, your body is efficient at utilizing whatever substrate it has available(in this case mostly protein for it bodily functions) which it will of course do first before it ever dreams of building any muscle. This is why your protein intake must be accelerated in the absence of carbs, or it will go to your existing prtotein stores(muscle) for the amino acids it needs.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/02, 01:24 PM
I got ya now:) Is there a time period on carb cycling or can you use until your results are met?
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2005/03/02, 04:56 PM
Should protein from your PWO shake also be viewed as recovery
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2005/03/02, 06:52 PM
You can carb cycle as long as you like, but it is like any dieting, your body will catch on. I like to switch up periods of time, that is why on a comp diet I normally start out with standard calorie cuts, then switch to carb cycling, then switch again to a standard calorie cut type. Without a "drop dead date" to meet, you can carry this as long as you want.
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Quoting from JustinE22:
I got ya now:) Is there a time period on carb cycling or can you use until your results are met?
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/08/30, 02:14 AM
hi ive been currently bulking up for the past few months and it is time for me to beggin my cuttin stage i was wondering wut is the best way to do this without loosing much muscle can u help me?
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