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2006/01/03, 12:01 AM
The routine offered by FT gives me an awkward split. I'd like to change it, and I know that you should work the larger muscle groups first (or is that a myth?) but I don't know what order to do it (I assume legs are first as they account for 50% of your body).
Here's my FT split:
Day 1 - Legs
Day 2 - shoulders, calves
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - back, forearms
Day 5 - chest, calves
Day 6 - rest
Day 7 - biceps, triceps
My goal is to burn fat and build lean muscle (not gain muscle mass though - doubt I could, me lacking the testosterone and all). I'm trying to revise my routine. Here's what I have so far:
Day 1 - legs (hams, quads, calves)
Day 2 - shoulders, back
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - chest, abs
Day 5 - arms
Day 6 - rest
Day 7 - HIIT
Is this a good split? Should I switch around some muscle groups or split some groups up (legs and arms)?
Also, I need help picking out specific exercises for each muscle group. I'm new to squats, so should I use a leg press for a bit before going to the squats? I've never done deadlifts before either (what's the difference between deadlifts and a stiff/straight leg deadlift?); I don't even know what it is. I have access to free weights and machines as well.
I'm kind of new to weight training (I haven't done any extensive training since May 2005 - marching band) but I know I can handle a 5 day split. I haven't done HIIT before either - is it a bad idea to do it before leg day or is it fine?
Any critique would be greatly appreciated.
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\"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we must alter it every six months.\" - Oscar Wilde.
Go heavy or go home.
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2006/01/04, 10:49 PM
Or is this one better?
Day 1 - hams and quads
Day 2 - calves and glutes
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - shoulders, back
Day 5 - chest, abs
Day 6 - rest
Day 7 - arms
What would be the best exercises for each muscle group?
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\"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we must alter it every six months.\" - Oscar Wilde.
Go heavy or go home.
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2006/01/05, 01:16 AM
Switch two and four. That way, it is lower, upper, rest, lower, upper, rest, upper.
I must know, what exercises are you doing for glutes without training your hamstrings. And vice versa.
This is my problem with body part splits.
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Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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Quoting from 7707mutt:
The squat cage is holy ground.
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2006/01/05, 01:36 AM
Well, to be honest, I don't know much about specific exercises other than the muscles that burn afterward are the ones that were worked. This is my first time planning my own routine as I've usually done what the fitness instructor for our marching band said to do back in high school.
Needless to say, I don't want to go into the gym blindly, going in there without a plan.
To answer your question about glutes and hams, I don't know. Switch two and four on the first or the second? I'm assuming the second, but what should I do about the hams and glutes deal?
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\"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we must alter it every six months.\" - Oscar Wilde.
Go heavy or go home.
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2006/01/06, 10:46 AM
i tried posting twice before but my connection gave out...here goes third try...lol
-since you're not a bodybuilder I wouldn't train like one....I would instead focus on exercises...
-http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html ....during SLDLs knees stay fixed whether slightly bent or straight...only hips move
-i wouldn't do hiit day before legs...
-also don't have back and legs close together training wise...both recover the longest so separate the two by at least 2-3 days...
-do partial squats with no weight if u are having hard time squatting deep....also try lunges and step ups ahead of leg press...
Legs: Squats, Lunges, SLDLs, calve raises
Back: Deadlifts, rows, chin ups/pull ups
Shoulders: military presses(you can occassionally try doing lateral and front raises)
Chest: Incline/Flat Bench Press
Arms: No real need to train them separately as they are trained well in heavy exercises for back and chest/shoulders...although you can do
Tri: french press, pushdowns, close grip bench press, etc
Bi: EZ bar curls, reverse curls, alternating db curls, concentrations curls, etc
Mon:
Squats/Lunges
SLDLs
Calf Raises
Wed:
Bench/Incline Bench
Shoulder Press
Close Grip Bench (optional)
Thu: Back
Deadlifts
Pull ups
rows/shrugs
curls(optional)
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2006/01/06, 10:51 AM
I think you can isolate hams from glutes by doing SLDLs off a platform and going down deep but only coming up 1/2 or 2/3 of the way up...so that your knees and hips stay fixed while only your lower back is moving....
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2006/01/06, 12:54 PM
"My goal is to burn fat and build lean muscle (not gain muscle mass though "
how can you build muscle and burn fat, but build muscle without gaining muscle mass?
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/01/06, 01:13 PM
i think she means weight by mass...she wants to change her body composition...it's pretty hard to do...but for a beginner not impossible to a degree at the beginning...
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2006/01/06, 07:19 PM
Yeah, I want to change my body composition. I'd like to burn off fat to show what muscles I already have, and keep them in shape, but not worried about making all that much bigger. More definition, I suppose. I know I'll be building muscle anyway, but I'm more worried about burning fat right now. "Cutting," I think the term is as I've learned that you can't "cut" and "gain" at the same time (except at the beginning).
Thanks for all your help. If I've got something mixed up, please correct me and remember that I'm still learning.
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2006/01/06, 07:54 PM
Timed out as I was posting. The above is I.
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2006/01/06, 11:21 PM
Re-read what I posted, came off a bit snappy and didn't mean to. To put it in the simpler terms, I was taking what "The Princess" said in the Beginner's forum:
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Quoting from princesslodgey:
"How much of this bodybuilding stuff is really relevant if you just want to get in shape?
Training - this has been well covered in other threads, but to reiterate: if you want to lose weight or get a firmer body, what you need to do is build muscle - each pound of muscle you gain burns an extra 30-50 calories a day, and aids you in getting rid of fat.
Who knows the best way to build muscle? - bodybuilders - the only difference is the extent to which you take it."
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Why shouldn't I train like them? Am I not allowed to strength-train simply because I'm not aiming to be a bodybuilder? Am to be pigeon-holed into an aerobics class to lose fat because I'm not a bodybuilder? If that's the case then you're SOL.
Anyhoo, thanks for all your help if though I took offense to your previous statement. No hard feelings.
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2006/01/07, 06:05 AM
FL you're misunderstanding what I am saying...
First off natural bodybuilding is a very healthy way to live....the nutrition component especially is very good...(at least like natural ones)....however what I am saying is there are different ways to train...for powerlifting, sports performance, olympic lifts, functional, etc...i am not pigeon holing you into anything I hope you realize this....there are many ways to train....however when you march Mondays you're not using just your arms or just your legs....you're using your muscles in unison...synergistically....this is why I would focus on using compound exercises that train your whole body as one... the way you do anything else in life....
what's a SOL? lol
"Am I not allowed to strength-train simply because I'm not aiming to be a bodybuilder?"
what do you mean I listed a sample strength training program along the lines of what I was saying....you can change it a million ways to be useful to your needs....
"What do you mean by "not training like a bodybuilder?" 5-day splits? Phases? Its nothing I haven't done before; hell, I was in the best shape of my life when I was in marching band, especially in the summer and late winter (right before spring) when we had extensive training. I suppose the only difference is that instead of HIIT, we marched with 70lb drums on our shoulders. I was a drummer. Played the quads.
"
Just because you did it before still doesn't make it correct to your needs...you can still get good results...if this is how you're comfortable training then by all means go right ahead....you asked members of the forum to critique your routine...and that's what I did...instead of simply saying 'do these bodyparts in this order or simply slightly revised your sample'...you really do need to realize there are a million ways to use resistance training to fit your goals...
Not sure why you got mad...
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2006/01/07, 04:31 PM
Just go lift hun....you want get big and bulky or look like a "bodybuilder"
hell gatormade has a post with pics of his volley ball players he train in action( at university of flordia) some squat in the 300s...and trust me.... they are very attractive. The are lean and also functionally strong.
WOMEN DON"T HAVE THE TEST. TO PRODUCE LARGE MUSCLES NATURALLY
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/01/07, 04:37 PM
Let's Deal With Toning Once and For All
By Krista Brittan
"Toning" is a word created by the mainstream fitness industry to attract women to lifting weights. Women always say "I just want to get toned" and "I don't want to get big and bulky, just more toned". How do you get toned? By lifting weights; seriously lifting weights. Not doing a few easy sets of 10-20 reps with pink plastic dumbbells.
Have you noticed that you have been lifting 3-8 lb. weights for years now and don't look much more "toned"? The method is virtually the same for everyone, whether you want to get big, strong and muscular or sleek and toned. Lift to your true potential, progressively and consistently and you will add muscle and reduce body fat. The result will be looking more muscular and "toned".
All "toning" is, is gaining lean muscle mass. But, for some reason women are afraid of that and think they are going to look like the incredible hulk. The word was made up just for women who have these fears. Hey, if throwing in the word "toned" here and there gets women into the gym to lift some weights, great, I am not complaining about that. But, wise up. It is a marketing scheme and a brilliant one.
Tons and tons of women are signing up at their local gyms to get "toned", but no one is really giving them the information they need to achieve their goals. They are not telling women that they may need to start at the 3 lb. pink weights as a beginner, but they will not be staying with them for very long. The next week it will likely be 5 lb., then 8, then 10, 12, 15, 20.
Ladies, YOU NEED TO PROGRESS. If you stay using the same weights, the same exercises, the same reps your body will not change. Why would it? You are not challenging it, not making it work any harder than it is used to working. You are boring the hell out of it and soon yourself. That is why most women do not last in a new workout regime for more than 8 weeks: Boredom, failure to see any results, feeling awkward and uncomfortable, overwhelmed by information overload or too much too quick.
SLOW PROGRESS IS THE BEST PROGRESS. So you now know that in order to get truly "toned" (AKA: to add muscle and decrease your body fat) you need to continually challenge your body and progressively give it larger loads to handle.
Yet, on the other hand, you do not want to go from 5 lb. to 20 lb. in a week. If one week you do lying chest presses with 8 lb. dumbbells and it was not a difficult task to accomplish your desired reps and sets, next week guess what? You move up to the next level, a small increment, to 10 lb. You may say to yourself, "This is a breeze still. I can handle way more weight". Be patient, you don't want to peak too soon or hurt yourself by making big jumps.
For example, if you quickly jump up to 20 lb. in a week or two, by the next week you are going to max out at 25 lb....meaning you cannot perform the desired number of repetitions or sets (3 sets of 10 perhaps); 20 lb. will be your max. But, if you gradually go up in small increments each week (5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30) you may find you are able to lift more weight in the long run and avoid injury. Your body will better benefit from taking this approach also. (We are talking about beginners here. If you are an experienced lifter you will know to start at a weight that is not killer, yet a challenge.)
KEEP IT SIMPLE. Often times women who want to get "toned" will overwhelm their bodies with a variant of exercises, reps, sets, and no consistency in their workouts. I refer to that approach as the "wandering workout". One week they may go the gym 4x a week. Day 1 may consist of a step aerobics class. The next day the wandering workout woman may include some upper body exercises, whatever they feel like. A few days later they will do a "toning class" and hit the treadmill afterwards for a 40-minute jog. Finally, finishing off on Day 4 concentrating on their lower body, usually leg lifts, hamstring curls extensions and maybe some calf raises. The next week it will be an entirely different regiment.
Yes, variation is key to preventing boredom, but this haphazard approach to training will only confuse the body as to what you want it to achieve.
In terms of cardiovascular training, sure mix it up. Three times a week for about 20-40 minutes; do whatever you want to raise your heart rate. I do not recommend high impact aerobics, but hiking, cycling indoors or out, walking, jogging, cross- country skiing, other cardiovascular machines...whatever you like. But, when it comes to strength training or weight lifting, keep it simple and follow a blueprint for a prescribed period of time (approx. 12 weeks).
Choose key compound exercises to perform 2 days a week (Sun/Wed, Mon/Thu). It is wise to perform a warm up set of the exercise to prepare the body and then one working set to start. Each week try to top what you did in that exercise the week before by either performing additional reps within the set or adding a bit of weight. Make sure you have included an exercise for each major muscle group (legs, hips, back, chest, shoulders, abs). As you become more experienced you may chose to add some support work or exercises that isolate smaller muscle groups and will help with your compound exercises (biceps, tricep, rotator cuffs, deltoids, calves, forearms). But, as a beginner these are not necessary and will only overwhelm you and give you "information overload" syndrome. (Check out WST Training and Training Cosultation for more specific information on a quality workout program for your goals and objectives)
By performing your basic exercises every week, progressively adding resistance and increasingly challenging your body, over time you will add muscle mass, decrease body fat and VOILA you will look more "toned" (AKA: you will be more muscular and leaner).
FUEL YOUR BODY. Lastly, if you truly want to be "toned" (AKA: more muscular) it is important to take a good look at your diet. Get 4-6 quality meals a day. Eliminate the crap you put into your mouth on a regular basis, but treat yourself once a week. Pick a day on the weekend to indulge in your favorites and get back to business the rest of the week. You deserve the occasional treat.
Don't starve yourself. Eat! In order to get "toned" (AKA: increase your muscle mass) you need to feed your body with the stuff it needs to make that muscle. Starving yourself will only result in a temporarily skinnier version of you. For example if you are pear shaped, by restricting calories to an unhealthy level you will just be a smaller pear. You will not change the shape of your body. And, it will not last.
Your body is a survivor and will eventually do whatever it has to, in order to make up for those missed calories. This is why we feel an uncontrollable urge to binge when we deprive ourselves for too long. And, talk about lack of energy! It's hard to work out when you feel like a slug and just want to crawl under your rock. Also, illness is your best friend when you starve yourself. Food has essential nutrients that help keep your immune system strong and fight off viruses and infections.
So, regarding this "toning" thing. You've been had ladies...the wool pulled over your eyes...sucked in, scammed, fooled, tricked, downright deceived by clever marketing tactics within the mainstream fitness industry. But, not to worry, if the desire to be "toned" has peaked your curiosity about fitness, great! But, let's enter reality now. "Toned" simply means you will be adding muscle or increasing your lean muscle mass and at the same time decreasing body fat.
Don't be afraid of the word muscle. You will not get big and bulky by lifting weights properly, progressively and consistently. The odds are WAYYYY against you. Will you get "toned"? Yes, if you do it right.
So, the next time you hear another female say "I don't want to get big and bulky, just more toned", perhaps you can educate them about the ongoing "toning" scam.
Natural Strength says it best...."NO TONE, NO CHROME, JUST HARD WORK!"
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/01/08, 01:50 AM
I'm not worried about getting big (as I know its damn near impossible to do so); I've already acknowledged that in my first post. I tried to make it clear by saying "I don't want to build mass" in the sense of "I don't want to be a female bodybuilder, I'm just looking for defintion and strength." I knew otherwise without what, t-boosters and whatnot, I wouldn't get the amount of mass as competion female bodybuilders.
SOL is "shit out of luck." :laugh:
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2006/01/08, 02:00 AM
LOL....
I think people who don't intend on becoming bodybuilders overly generalize the principles of bodybuilding training to goals outside of bodybuilding in general...which although yields results...as do most things in the beginning, is not the way to train most effectively...I forget but someone else made this point...either wrestler or someone else on another forum...
it's like dedicating days for training your toes, fingers etc....this is why I like to focus on lifts and exercises that train the whole body rather than just focus on specific bodyparts....the body works in unison there's just no way around it....
I think 3 days of compound exercises weekly will yield great results for you FL....but those are just my 2 cents....
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2006/01/08, 02:15 AM
I'm the kind of person that can't sit still. I wouldn't call it ADD/ADHD, but if it doesn't challenge me, I'm not interested. That's why I like weight training. You're constantly challenging yourself - daily, weekly, monthly, yearly.
With that said, I need something to do all the time. I'd rather devote my "figetiness" to something beneficial to me than over eating (I'm prone to eating when I'm bored - BAD!) or sitting on my ass watching movies I've seen 80 million times. I get up at 6am at college to go run because I like to run. Having a broken foot right now is personal hell. I can't do a damn thing and its bothering me.
Weight training is my.. exit, my escape from figetiness. Three days a week is simply not enough for me.
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2006/01/08, 04:23 PM
Can you pedal a stationary bike or cycle? It's a good substitute if you can do it...(ask doc)...or even better alternative would be swimming...because it's so low impact(as long if you can get the cast wet...also somethign to ask your doc)
You can train more frequently that's not a problem....just with a moderate or low intensity and volume...
I would still focus all my workouts around big lifts though...I would pick an exercise and do it on a particular day....
Monday: Squat
Tue:....Pull Ups
Wed:....Dips
Thu:....Deadlifts
Fri:....Military Presses
Sat:....Close Grip Bench Press
Sunday:.Shrugs
you can change these exercises as you like...but you get the point...you can do them every day if you have the desire to do so...just as long as the volume and intesity are low....and I would still have a day or two of complete rest....also once you'll start running again you probably should still limit weight training to 4-5 days and do cardio after you weight train or on separate days...
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