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2006/11/06, 11:11 PM
Ok, so here's the deal: I recently started some personal training at a nearby gym. I chose the gym that I did because a lot of high-level power lifters train there and apparently the trainers are fairly knowledgeable. Anyway, right now I'm doing what my trainer calls "basic conditioning", which involves about 3 sets of 8-10 reps per exercise. Not exactly the rep range I was hoping for, but she says we'll be upping the weight and lowering the reps once we've finished the conditioning. Today we did a lower body workout, which included squats (no real resistance, just practicing technique), leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, single leg curls, and calf raises. She said we were working from the larger muscle groups down to the smaller ones. The resistance wasn't terribly high, and I wasn't exactly going to failure (except with the leg extensions) but I was wondering if it’s a good idea to do more than one exercise that targets the same area in a single workout.
Thanx
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2006/11/07, 07:48 AM
Going to failure on isolation exercise is generally not suggested, especially if that exercise happens to be leg extensions. It's terrible for your knees(shearing forces). It's better to do SLDL or another exercise for hams if you got the energy as well.
It's fine to do more than 1 exercise for same movement pattern/muscles but you are generally doing those secondary exercises for a specific reason as assistance/accessory work to improve on your weaknesses....
For a specific leg only workout I would have done
-Squats
-SLDLs
-Lunges
-1 legged RDLs
-Calf Raises/Sled/Plyos
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2006/11/07, 09:13 AM
I don't really like going to failure with any exercise to be honest; I'm also not a giant fan of isolation exercises either. I was only doing it with the extensions because I was fatigued from the presses. I know failure does, but does working a fatigued muscle induce alot of tear?
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2006/11/07, 08:51 PM
Personally it's a waste of time. If you do squats then I would skip isolation machine exercises. If you want to do something unilaterally or something hits a specific area in more isolation I would still choose compound exercises...
I would also skip presses....yes you can load shit load of weight on it but in the end it's pointless....just because u can leg press 1000 doesnt mean u can even squat 225 with good form...it's trully a pointless exercise IMO....personal trainers prefer exercises like these because they require little coordination/stabilization/etc...
Not quite sure how you got this workout from a trainer in a powerlifting gym....i am guessing that even though powerlifters workout at your gym...and perhaps they are many in numbers....this particular trainer doesn't subscribe to their style of workouts....even for a newbie this is bs work....you want GPP go drag a sled or push your car in neutral....etc....
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2006/11/07, 10:31 PM
She actually competed as a powerlifter for quite awhile. I hate isolation exercises, but like I said, she described the routine as "conditioning"...apparently we'll be getting to exercises like squats and deads a month or so down the road (havn't mastered form quite yet). I think I'm just having my basic strength evaluated, but I don't like working the same muscle groups with multiple moderate to high intensity exercises because it feels like I'm over working myself for a minimal mass program...
Like I said before though, does fatigue imply muscle tear or is it just a lactic acid build up?
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2006/11/07, 11:32 PM
My philosophy for leg day:
Start with a big move, squat, box squat, something like that.
Then, move on to unilater work. Lunges, step ups, pistols, etc. Side lunges, etc.
Then, move onto a hip extension (hamstring) exercise. Romanian, sldl, hyperextension...
Everything else is just gravie.
Besides that menace, you ever work as a trainer? Its a pain in the ass teaching kids the right way. Just because someone knows the right way to do something, doesn't mean that will be the way it is taught. Laziness is a big problem in the industry. Even bigger is that if you put a client on that kind of workout I just recommended, they might not like it. Throw in some leg presses (easy progression) and leg extensions (an exercise you FEEL ) and you've got a program that the average person will like.
Fatigue is amibiguous. Training to failure is training to fail in my opinion.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/11/08, 02:20 AM
I worked a bit at a shitty club. I had to train according to the club's policies which I completed disagreed with so I decided to quit. I also trained a few of my friends when asked for a favor. I personally look at a program I give as a reflection of myself. So doing something I know is wrong is disrespecting myself and my reputation.
People ask for my advice or hire me to get results. The best results I can produce for them. I could give a $hit if they like or dont like it. They can either do it, disregard my advice and find another trainer. There's nothing more than having some idiot ask me for advice then completely disregard it...'well I been training for 30 years this way...'...well reason they ask me for advice is I also look the part and they look like they never lifted weights in their life. you dont want to take the advice fine. But dont insult my intelligence by asking additional things to do on top of the 10 sets of curls or 5 exercises of presses/flyes to build great chest and arms...
Also just because someone was a good athlete in their own time doesnt mean they are a good coach. Yes often these types of people are very knowledgeable but at times this is not the case. Many athletes are spoon fed their programs without understanding what they are doing or why. So beware.
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2006/11/08, 02:27 AM
I have heard that blanket statement before and I always ponder it when i hear it. Yes most athletes/trainers believe that training to failure is training to fail. My problem with this statement is that there are times when this could be not the case. Just like purposely causing yourself to overtrain for a short period with a specific goal ....even tho overtraining is like the new boogeyman when it comes to lifting weights. This is in part how results are made. With periodization I think training to failure is not necessarily a bad thing. You give your body enough rest and it will be stronger.
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2006/11/08, 09:08 AM
============
Quoting from wrestler125:
My philosophy for leg day:
Start with a big move, squat, box squat, something like that.
Then, move on to unilater work. Lunges, step ups, pistols, etc. Side lunges, etc.
Then, move onto a hip extension (hamstring) exercise. Romanian, sldl, hyperextension...
Everything else is just gravie.
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Would you modify the intensity of the exercises following squats?
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2006/11/08, 06:29 PM
Not to accomidate fatigue. Granted, I'm not going to max on lunges (usually this falls around 4-5 reps at a 6rm). I'm also not going to do 3 reps on a leg curl, but I might do a 3rm if doing romanians.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/11/08, 08:54 PM
Just out of curiosity, how should I be feeling physically after such a workout?
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2006/11/08, 10:31 PM
Immediately after I usually feel pretty good. About an hour later I usually pass out on my futon. Keep in mind that I don't actually do a "leg day", so I might be a bit different.
I don't believe in that whole "no pain no gain" approach, but at the same time, if you lack intensity, I don't care how well devised your workout is, you're not going to progress the way you should.
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Iron and chalk.
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