• FreeTrainers.com Forums
• Strength & Powerlifting
• Remind me again...

Group: Strength & Powerlifting

Remind me again...

Tinnuk Posts: 291 Joined: 2005/12/19	2008/07/16, 01:35 PM As I recall, the reasons that training to failure can be bad are... 1. It creates fatigue in successive sets, making them less effective. 2. Increases necessary restitution intervals between workouts. 3. (something I don't fully understand) Something about the "Hebbian rule" or whatever it's called, it has something to with training to failure making you less neurologically efficient or something along those lines. Am I missing anything and/or have I got something wrong?
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/07/16, 02:08 PM I'm glad you said CAN be bad rather than is bad. It is all relative, but since you are clearly after the negatives of training to failure: Hebbs rule (theory) is simplified as "cells that fire together, wire together". Really, I can't see how someone would apply this to strength training, and I'm surprised you had even heard of it. It actually has to do with an INCREASE in efficiency through a sharing of axons. Nowhere have I ever heard training to failure and hebbian theory mentioned in the same context. To fully explain it though, would require a complete understanding of your motor system. As far as strength training goes, hebbian theory has been used to explain the bilateral deficit and synaptic learning, but how any of it applies to training to failure is beyond me. And number 1 and 2 aren't necessarily bad. If you start telling me that fatigue is bad, then we're starting from scratch. Really, the only downside to training to failure is the drain it imposes on the nervous system. The nervous system takes longer to heal than the muscular system, and this healing time increases exponentially with respect to damage done. Of course, this is all relative. I often train completely past failure with any isolation stuff I am doing, but that isn't CNS intensive to begin with, so I don't think I have anything to worry about. This comes down to training economy though. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2008/07/17, 09:11 PM Wrestler, do you get hurt alot?
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/07/18, 09:09 AM I have hip issues from a genetic issue with the way my acetebula grew, and I herniated a disk sneezing about a year ago. I have never hurt myself training, aside from a torn hamstring I got when doing high rep SLDL's and I got sloppy (I deserved it). In fact my training is the only thing that really keeps me healthy, which I've determined since whenever I take a week off my hips and knees hurt more (now I just take a deload week rather than a week off). Why are you asking? If it's because training to failure is supposed to be dangerous, then I don't think going to failure on something like bicep curls really falls into the same category. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2008/07/19, 08:01 PM Just wondered. I feel like you are always recovering from an injury when you post. Just thought I'd ask. For the record, and I'm just saying this is what works for me, I never train to failure. I also continue to get stronger and am injury free. Now, part of that is because I am gifted but the other part is that I know what I'm doing when I train. For the record...
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/07/19, 08:35 PM Ah. I'm usually recovering from something hip related, since a hooked acetebula causes other problems. Healthy now. That is a good point though. Just because you CAN train to failure doesn't mean someone should, even on isolation stuff. Find what is optimal for you. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
Pensfan Posts: 484 Joined: 2008/03/14	2008/07/19, 10:52 PM i always thought that you should go to failure on a set so the body saw a need to get bigger and stronger. or are you talking about the entire workout like you shouldn't push yourself to the point where you cant lift the weight anymore?
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/07/21, 09:20 AM ============ Quoting from pensfan: i always thought that you should go to failure on a set so the body saw a need to get bigger and stronger. ============= Like we said before, there is no NEED to go to failure. It's not like doing 4 reps at a 5rm will cause nothing to happen but if you do 5 or try 6 then magically it will stimulate growth. You can get bigger, stronger, and faster without going to failure. The russians have been doing it for years, they dominate the IPF and remain competitive in Oly lifting with programs based on percentages that keep them away from failure. -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2008/07/22, 12:26 PM I avoid FAILING on any of my big exercises. My last set of ME work is usually the most I can possibly do for that rep range without losing form or missing a lift, but I rarely, if ever actually miss a lift. In fact, outside of event training, I haven't missed a lift or had a partner assist in months. I take isolation stuff past failure occasionaly. Things like curls, etc, I'll use drop sets or rest pause, but I generally only do 2 sets or so, and a lot of times I don't even do isolation stuff (minor accessory work is based on how I feel at the end of my workout). -------------- SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
Pensfan Posts: 484 Joined: 2008/03/14	2008/07/22, 01:28 PM both directions have their good and bad qualities ethire way it shouldn't affect things to much.
Pensfan Posts: 484 Joined: 2008/03/14	2008/07/21, 12:27 PM alright then but i think i will still probably go for broke on my sets.
mr.sniffers Posts: 17 Joined: 2008/06/25	2008/07/22, 02:21 AM hey wrestler what do you prefer going to failure or stopping just short of failure do you just go to failure on your last couple of sets or what?