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2004/05/12, 12:14 PM
I'm posting this outside the sticky.. copied your suggestion from that thread:
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How about......if we do 3 lifts........either bench press, squat and deadlift.......or 4...and add military press in it..........then to make it far what you do is take the MAX and divid it by your body weight to get a percentage.....do this for all 3 or 4 lifts.....and add them together.........example
A 225lbs
bench 240/225=1.06
military 190/225=.84
squat 300/225=1.33
deadlift 350/225= 1.55
total 4.78
B 110lbs
bench 115/110=1.04
military 60/110=.54
squat 200/110=1.81
deadlift 220/110=2.00
total 5.38
as you can see the B won, even though B smaller and not lifting as much weight.........if we prefere we could multiply by 100 for a higher eaiser to log score. Also this if fun too cause you can get maxes, but before you max you can try to lose a lil weight while maintaining your strength. Just a thought!
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Here's a scenario to keep in mind.
Using the examples above, if A weighs 120 and B weighs 140, and they lift exactly the same:
A
bench: 100/120 = 0.83
dead: 200/120 = 1.67
squat: 150/120 = 1.25
total: 3.75
B
bench: 100/140 = 0.71
dead: 200/120 = 1.43
squat: 150/120 = 1.07
total: 3.21
A wins by virtue of being lighter. Being pretty new to this, I don't know how likely that would be.. if you are 20 lbs overweight does that mean you can lift more?
And it appears that if you are starting out heavy, you have a great advantage in the percent improvement category, because you will be losing weight and improving your ratio in addition to getting stronger and increasing your lifts.
That's all for now.. have to take a break from not working to go to lunch, LOL.
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2004/05/12, 12:30 PM
The formula gives a ratio between body weight and weight lifted.
I am 6 feet 220 lbs. I think me and Andrew are near the same weight. I can lift a model car. Andrew can lift a real car. Howdiekat and asimmer can lift me. They are all strong. I'm a wussy. At least I have my looks , my biting wit and beautifil mind.
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Foolish consistancies are the hobgoblins of small minds.
Charlie
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2004/05/12, 12:50 PM
A wins because lb for lb they are lifting just as much as the bigger person...........think about it whos really stronger.....and guy that 150 benching 300? or a 275 guy thats benching 305? Pound for pound the lil guy is stronger cause his benching 2 times his body weight.....where the bigger guy is benching only 30lbs more than he weighs......bigger guy might be more intimidating etc. but pound for pound the lil guy is better. We did this in high school, cause people always claimed these big bad maxes, and when they get the ratio, that shows them how strong they really are......well some girls actually bet them...... I would suggest "b" ither loses 20 lbs.....or lifts heavier.
Its hard to loose weight and get stronger lol anyways it is for me anyways.....unless you keep your maxes, and cut down 30 lbs like body builders do for comp.
You would have to know your compotitions body weight in order to get uner the ratio of theres. No one here knows each other bench, dl or squat.....or real body weight......soem have an idea but not exact.
I do say we need to seperate the catigories......intermediate or advanced or age groups maybe........them maybe have a all over winner a " grand champion.......I dunno usually when ones wants the mazes higher, they don't try and loose weight.
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.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
......minds are not vessles to be filled, but fires to be enlightened
......Confucious once said ,DO NOT play leap frog with a unicorn
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2004/05/12, 12:58 PM
With this ratio you don't have to worry about weight classes and crap its a lil easier, and the girls can compete with the guys pound for pound wise.......
IF we want a straight up lift off.......give weight classes.....even then that won't work since a person can be in yoru weight class, and weight 5 lbs more than you and it be muscle.....no matter what theres gonna be problems "what if catagorie"......but the albera function doesn't lie lol.... I just think pound for pound would be easier, and most fare......
BY the way charlie......i'm 255.....lol no where near 220 lol
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.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
......minds are not vessles to be filled, but fires to be enlightened
......Confucious once said ,DO NOT play leap frog with a unicorn
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2004/05/12, 01:42 PM
surely the actual weight lifted per pound you weigh doesn't really matter because we are looking at how much people improve over the 2 months - so it's not important if A beats B in a head to head if B has made bigger gains
e.g.
1st june 1st august
bench A 100/120 = 0.83 A 110/120 = 0.92
bench B 100/140 = 0.71 B 115/140 = 0.82
So in a direct head to head A wins both times but the best improver is B
Or should we have a "best overall" (in this case A) and also a "best improver" (in this case B) category?
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2004/05/12, 01:44 PM
sorry that post didn't come out right - the first column is supposed to be june 1st and second august 1st
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2004/05/12, 01:48 PM
I was reading back through the bajillion posts on the Challenge sticky, and something Tex said about going by percent of body mass popped out at me (cuz that's what we're doing)...
The ratio of weight lifted divided by body weight equals percent of body mass as he described. . if you weigh 160 and you bench 160, your ratio will be 1, or 100%. In two weeks, add 10 lbs to your lift, you're at 1.063 or 106% so you've improved that lift by 6%. Then at the end, say you're benching 200 and you've gained 5 lbs, your overall Bench ratio is 1.212 or 121% - a 21% increase. If you lost 5 lbs, your increase jumps to 29%.
The percentage increase for each lift then gets added together and divided by 3 to determine exact Overall Strength Increase.
Forgive me for being so detailed but it's my nature.. need to be sure I understand something completely before I dive in.
So do I have this right? And where is everyone's maxes and body weight, are you all going to wait until June 1st and fill my inbox??
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: ] ~Danielle
Action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action.
~Benjamin Disraeli
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2004/05/12, 01:49 PM
I agree your hienous ness.
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Foolish consistancies are the hobgoblins of small minds.
Charlie
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2004/05/12, 01:50 PM
:surprised:
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Would it be classified as overly competitive if I refused to let a 4 year old beat me at chutes and ladders?
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2004/05/12, 01:50 PM
I sent you mine; we still need to talk about option 4. Do I need to send you my credit card info?
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Would it be classified as overly competitive if I refused to let a 4 year old beat me at chutes and ladders?
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2004/05/12, 02:08 PM
My last post was to da princess. Sorry. I'll IM you today Dani. Incidently, I am using the FT 1 rep max for calculating and lift numbers from my journal.
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Foolish consistancies are the hobgoblins of small minds.
Charlie
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2004/05/12, 07:40 PM
Only one question........what if I say my max is 100lbs on bench? lol...........that means when I bench 300.... thats a 200% increase is it not lol? just a thought........if some one under maxes now... it might mix up the %'s
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.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
......minds are not vessles to be filled, but fires to be enlightened
......Confucious once said ,DO NOT play leap frog with a unicorn
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2004/05/12, 07:42 PM
that's a good point. We're leaving a lot up to honesty. I think that's gonna be the best anyone can do though.
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In order to live, you must be willing to die.
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2004/05/12, 08:56 PM
hec, sorry no plastic. Cash, check or money orders are accepted. This deal is going fast, limited time only!
Yeah that's the other rule.. NO CHEATING allowed. It would be a hollow victory I promise.. and I know a little old voodo woman in N'awlins who will put a curse on those who are dishonest.:big_smile:
This is a motivational competition, it's about challenging yourself.. not doing your level best is only shortchanging your own accomplishment.
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2004/05/12, 09:19 PM
well said.
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In order to live, you must be willing to die.
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2004/05/12, 09:50 PM
I pondered this in the beginning... not from the standpoint of somebody deliberatly cheating though. In my case I have squatted 400 lbs several months ago for 3 reps. That puts my 1 rep max around 435. I sent Dani a 1 rep max in the 390's.
Why?? Because I went 6 weeks without lifting when we moved and renovated. My Maxes suffered. I mentioned this in an earlier post as far as should we use current maxes. I think the only thing we can do is use where we are NOW as a bench mark. Make sense?? I know Mike was a mighty lifter in high school and college.From his posts I gathr he has just gotten back into lifting. But it is where he is now that matters for the challange.
This is another reason to wait till June first so we can hit on these details.
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Quoting from bigandrew:
Only one question........what if I say my max is 100lbs on bench? lol...........that means when I bench 300.... thats a 200% increase is it not lol? just a thought........if some one under maxes now... it might mix up the %'s
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Foolish consistancies are the hobgoblins of small minds.
Charlie
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2004/05/12, 09:57 PM
Yea, I think starting out with such a high max might have you upside down at the end of the comp.
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2004/05/13, 11:29 AM
yeah I'm going to wait to give my exact stats come june 1st and likewise for august 1st
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2004/05/13, 11:47 AM
Okey dokey... we have a pretty strong interest in an overall strength gains competition. After working out the squat/bench/dead dealie with Dani, I realize that measuring an overall strength comp may be easier said than done.
I guess we need ideas and consensus on which lifts to include and how to measure progress. This one may me a bear but we will try.
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Foolish consistancies are the hobgoblins of small minds.
Charlie
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2004/05/13, 11:56 AM
I am going to be prepared to give my all on June 1 and really see what I can do at that point, I want to KNOW what I am capable of, before AND after.
I really want to test myself and hopefully have something to be proud of at the end.. and even if between now and June 1 I make some improvements (and 'miss out' on that increase for the challenge), that just means I have a higher goal to reach for Aug 1.
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