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2002/11/26, 07:40 AM
Hi all.
Because of works I've had around 4-5months away from the gym.
Things have calmed down now, and Im back at it. I would just like to know if you think Im on the righ track with following:
Weights 3 X per week (ft GAINS prog.)
Cardio 2-3 X per week (40 mins on bike or X trainer)
+ walking to and from work % x per week takes 1.5 hours a day.
Typical Diet per Day:
Porridge first thing + shake
Bacon sandwhich @ 10:00
..maybe a shake
Roast meat dinner @ 1:00
Jacket with tuna + shake @ 6:00
...Gym...
Shake before bed around 10:00
I aim to shed quite a bit of fat and maintain\increase muscle.
Thanks for your time.
Jon
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2002/11/26, 07:41 AM
excuse the spelling, i was working hard :-)
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2002/11/26, 09:11 AM
Personally, when I'm trying to gain mass, I keep cardio to a minimum. I think 40min-3x a week cardio might be a bit too much when trying to gain muscle. Keep it to, say, twice a week, 20-30min max.
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2002/11/26, 10:18 AM
If you're looking only to maintain your muscle, then yes, you can lose the fat. However, if you are actually trying to gain muscle, it will be very hard if you are trying to lose fat as well, almost impossible actually. That's why you must do these things in seperate stages. You may want to try to add the muscle first, which would mean incorporating a diet to support the muscle growth. Then doing a cut down phase after, in which you would use a diet to support fat loss. Just a tip. Keep workin hard.
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"Some people call it insanity, I call it intensity"
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2002/11/26, 10:28 AM
Over two months ago I posted the following message. The above comments prompted me to copy and paste it here. There are so many misconceptions and several of you echoed/agreed with my thoughts on this.
"I think there is a huge misconception here about losing weight and gaining muscle. Everyone seems to think that you can't do this at the same time. While this is true at some point in one's training, I would particularly contend that most beginners and intermediates can accomplish these goals at the same time. In fact, I would contend that this should be your goal! Your body is not going to feed off your muscles, thereby preventing size and strength gains, if you have much more readily available fat deposits to supply energy. At some point when your body needs more than your food intake and and fat stores can supply, your muscle gains will be sacrificed. However, this may take months or years to reach. I know from personal experience that over a 6 week period, I dropped 26 lbs and increased my bench by 40 lbs. Did I lose fat? Yes. Did I pack on muscle? Yes. Did I eat 3000 calories? No. Did I eat 1000 calories? No. What I did do was eat between 2000 and 2150 calories spread over 5 meals. This was done in conjunction with protein shakes. I had a balanced workout with a traditional intermediate type split and exercise selection. I don't believe you have to have one goal or the other. You can have both. It does require that you make sure that the calories you eat are not empty. They should promote muscle growth. Your body will use them for this. For the other energy needs, your body will go to the fat stores. I apologize for the rant and what I think is the first time I've ever started a post. However, I want everyone to know that in the beginning, you CAN have it all. It simply takes discipline and the proper attack."
My point in all of this is that until you have a significantly low body fat percentage, you can make significant muscle gains and fat loss. The two go hand in had for 99% of the people using this site. For those who compete or are a competition type level in their training, they must cycle bulking phases with cutting phases. But a new lifter (3 years or less in my book, that's three years of straight discipline which would probably extend this category to even more people) should target both goals with balance.
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2002/11/26, 02:17 PM
While it is certainly possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, focusing on one area will yield faster, more efficient results. You will obviously gain muscle very slowly on a hypocaloric or even maintenence diet. Under the same circumstances a beginner could probably gain a pound of muscle as quickly as a week while overfeeding. For the most efficient results, cycling is a better option in my opinion.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2002/11/26, 04:08 PM
I agree that cycling is better once there is something to cycle, but beginners by definition have nothing to cycle. They have no muscle base and are generally high on the body fat. No one who maintains an unhealthy body weight and whose long-term goal is to put on muscle, should over eat to get muscle mass first or vice versa, lift lift and go on a diet. They should lift with progressive resistance and change their eating habits to facilitate increased health. Once they reach a plateau, then change something. This will build a muscular foundation, a fitness foundation, and prepare your body for even greater change. The single most important thing to consume for gaining muscle mass is protein. An individual can get more than enough while eating a moderate amount of calories. Your body does not chew away to muscle when there is plenty of fat to go around. I'm not saying that you are going to put on size if you are dieting to go from 5% bodyfat to 1 or 2%. What I am saying though is you can significantly increase your muscle mass while trying to go from 18% to 15% or 12% or etc. That's where I would bet most people are.
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2002/11/26, 06:12 PM
I also agree, I have to much fat (about 20 kilo), I do weights 3 times a week and cardio 3 times a week (45mins)
Over the last 8 weeks I have lost about 3 kilos, but have put heaps of muscle on (I'm a real newbie), so I may have lost 5 - 6 kilos of fat
I eat heaps of protien, not much fat, but aren't really on a diet as such
Thanks also for all the great encouragement on this site
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2002/11/27, 08:40 AM
If you're looking only to maintain your muscle, then yes, you can lose the fat. However, if you are actually trying to gain muscle, it will be very hard if you are trying to lose fat as well, almost impossible actually. That's why you must do these things in seperate stages. You may want to try to add the muscle first, which would mean incorporating a diet to support the muscle growth. Then doing a cut down phase after, in which you would use a diet to support fat loss. Just a tip. Keep workin hard.
I dont think its impossible at all...or even improbable. Watch your diet. Aim toward increasing muscle mass, and watch your diet, and you will lose fat. Adding muscle makes you burn more calories (higher metabolism). If you eat the same number of calories with 200 lbs muscle mass as opposed to 190 lbs of muscle mass, yuou are burning 10x50 more calories per day. (50 cals a day per lb of muscle on average). So, its VERY possible. In fact I was doing this. You just have to adjust your % of calories alotted to protein/carbs/fat. Make sure you eat enough protein to support muscle growth, and enough carbs that you have the energy.
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2002/11/27, 09:14 AM
This discussion is one of those that pops up quite often but it's always interesting to see the differences in opinion. It's definitely not impossible but it is definitely harder and takes longer. For those that are able to stick to the long view, it's an obtainable goal. I'm currently on a clean mass cycle that's taken over a year to put on 30 lbs and it'll be almost another year before I hit my goal of 225. I've had to constantly tweak my diet and workout but it can be done.
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2002/11/27, 09:26 AM
No, it's not impossible to lose fat while gaining muscle, but you won't gain muscle anywhere near as quickly if you're watching your diet to the point where you are trying to lose fat. You're muscles will become more defined, but you won't gain muscle quickly, it will take time. Remember, as well that calories play a big role in supporting muscle growth as well, since they provide energy. This in no way means you can go to mcdonald's and stock up on big mac's and expect to look like arnold or anything. But calories are needed as an energy source for the body when looking to gain muscle.
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"Some people call it insanity, I call it intensity"
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2002/11/27, 10:41 AM
I would contend that the bodies fat stores provide more than enough energy to compensate for a moderate caloric intake. Mike says he put on 30 lbs in just over a year on a clean program. That is excellent results. The experts say that you can only expect to put on about 1lb of muscle a month. Most would kill for 30 in a year. Many bodybuilders are now maintaining a more managable "off season" weight because the extra is not only hard to shed, but it adds weight to the already taxed joints.
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2002/12/04, 02:24 PM
Here's the thing - the leaner you are, the more LBM you'll gain when overfeeding. The fatter you are, the more fat you'll lose when underfeeding. Those are scientifically prveon facts. If you're looking at it from an efficiency point of view, even (actually especially) for a beginner, it is smarter to diet down and then bulk. You'll lose the intial fat faster and then gain muscle more quickly when you're ready.
So, again, while you can accomplish both at the same time, your results will never be optimal.
Jsut to add, for a beginner, a gain of a pound a week is possible, but once you've advanced, that sort of gain is much more difficult.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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