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2006/12/29, 02:33 PM
No I'm not talking about tofu or soy!
After researching and reading allot of what BB1 has said on Protein Powder and I even went back of few years on post and comments I have decided at least for now but most likely for good too get rid of the Whey intake and make the move over to Casein Protein.
I have been using Whey for 1st thing in the morning with milk oats and blueberries in a shake but Casein would fit in there much better and although I take Whey after a workout I'm fining out that Casein again is a better choice.
Why Casein as a PWO, simple because I weigh about 185 pounds and I take in on average around 220 to 250 grams of protein in per day and most of it is from solid foods. I also eat not only around my workouts but all day long getting protein in so therefore I'm going to say Why waste intake on Whey when I can have the best of the best Casein.
Yeah it might taste like crap but I'm yet to see but I want Protein that lasts and not pisses through me although it's great for PWO I think I have enough protein flowing through me to wait on a Casein to kick in.
I was also told this by a pretty smart powerlifter almost ten years ago and after research and BB1's constant inputs on this subject it's time for me to make the move.
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2006/12/29, 05:09 PM
I'm going with TrueProtein
Custom Mix Ingredients:
Calcium Caseinate 50%
Micellar Casein 50%
Unless the TOP DOGS here think I should lower the Casein and and a tad ofEgg White or Whey like an 80% 20% or 70% 30%.
Total Calories 112.5
Calories from Fat 0
Amount Per Serving
Total Fat 0.7g
Saturated Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0g
Sodium 52.5mg
Carbohydrates 0g
Dietary Fiber 0g
Sugar 0g
Protein 25g
Vitamin A 0mg
Vitamin C 0mg
Calcium 0.6mg
Iron 0mg
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2006/12/30, 02:04 AM
I may go this route instead lol.
This 1 I think is going to be it and it will be mixed in Milk.
Calcium Caseinate 50%
Micellar Casein 20%
Whey Protein Concentrate 15%
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration 15%
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2006/12/30, 12:05 PM
I would do a mixture, something like 50% whey isolate and 50% casein of some sort.
I like your thinking. If you look at all these studies, they are all about insulin(glucose). By recall(will have to look it up to be sure), baseline insulin (fasted) is what, 10 microunits.
Now a study(and I won't bore you with it, just the jist of it) shows that when insulin was administered to achieve concentrations of about 15, 30, and 100 FU/mL, there was no further increase in MPS measured, but there was a marked depression of muscle protein breakdown that appeared to be maximal at 15 FU/mL.
So, reading into this, after a 5FU/ml rise, there really is no more effect from an increase in insulin. And remember, the above study was done in a fasted state, suffice it to say you probably have had some mixed meal during the day. You can approach 'fasted state' maybe with a balls to the wall long high set fast paced workout like a glycogen workout, but few do this and it makes little sense.
But, digressing back....
If you know research or physiology at all, you know that whey protein in itself can have a nice effect on insulin(BCAA's for instance show a nice increase). So, will more do any good? In fact, three is a dose response effect on oxidation(meaning that the higher the doseage at once such as whey when overwhelming the system), you simply oxidize more protien.
All these studies are also done acutely....there is not and probably never will be a long term study to see if this really has any impact on growth. If you restore some glycogen at a bit faster rate, what does this mean? Not much in the big picture. Most weight training sessions are not that glycogen demanding like an endurance race would be for instance.
I for instance have been doing this 'fast uptake' post workout since the mid 90's. Has it had any impact on my progress that I wouldn't normally have gotten from just solid diet? If it has, not enough to distinguish. It is not what you do in 10 minutes that determines your gains, it is what you do in days, weeks, months that will determine what happens.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2006/12/30, 12:42 PM
I remember from years ago, one of the 'old guys', very smart, it was either Vince Gironda or Dan Duchane or maybe even Rhondo blair, but they said this...protein should not be gulped. It should be sipped throuout a prolonged period. This was before whey protein ever existed in the markets. What was meant if you read into it is a steady stream of amino acid intake is more beneficial than a huge amount at once(recall my post above about oxidation).
I am not inferring here in these posts not to use a fast acting protein/carb source, just inferring insulin is not the be all end all of bodybuilding. Recovery is essential, but smart recovery instead of letting the supplement companies to do your thinking for you and taking your money is even smarter.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2006/12/30, 12:56 PM
Thanks Bro!
I'll go with this then:
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration 50%
Calcium Caseinate 35%
Micellar Casein 15%
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2006/12/30, 01:20 PM
Ok Final Decission has been made.
5 pounds per month of
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration 50%
Calcium Caseinate 25%
Micellar Casein 25% <--This one is costly but if it's the best of the best in Casein then I want at least 25% of it!
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 30 grams
Total Calories 111.25
Calories from Fat 0
Amount Per Serving
Total Fat 0.35g
Saturated Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0g
Sodium 48.75mg
Carbohydrates 0g
Dietary Fiber 0g
Sugar 0g
Protein 26g
Vitamin A 0mg
Vitamin C 15.1mg
Calcium 0.3mg
Iron 0mg
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2006/12/30, 01:25 PM
This is for thoughs who may be interested.
True Protein’s Micellar Casein is derived from milk protein isolate. The process of extraction is a natural and gental removal of all whey protein peptides, which leaves you with a pure Micellar Casein. Micellar Casein is a newer protein product, the process of manufacturing is only a few years old. You will not see many big name manufacturers using this product, mainly because it hurts their bottom line (to expensive). This protein powder can be considered the best of the best and the purest when coming to caseinate proteins.
Micellar Casein is completely undenatured and is chock full of sub-fractions and growth factors. This is great for overall muscle tissue repair and helps greatly in recovery. Since Micellar Casein is a caseinate, absorption is slower than whey products, therefore this is a great protein that has anti-catabolic properties as well.
Micellar Casein possesses a bland taste, but with all casein type proteins, they do possess a somewhat chalky mouth feel. Casein type proteins in general also have a much thicker consistancy than a whey might have, so mixing quantites should be less. Micellar Casein is an instantized protein so it can easily be mixed in a shaker or blender.
True Protein’s Calcium Caseinate is manufactured and derived from fresh skim milk. Calcium Caseinate protein is extracted from casein through acidification, which in turn, provides the user with a slow digesting protein. This slow digesting time leads to anti-catabolic properties and gives the user a feeling of being fuller longer.
Calcium Caseinate, like our other fresh skim milk derived proteins is very high in glutamine, an amino acid essential to muscle building. Since this protein possesses slow digesting properties, we recommend mixing this protein with faster absorbing proteins (whey), for a well rounded custom mix. True Protein also recommends using Calcium Caseinate before going to sleep at night (anti-catabolic), to keep amino acids working their magic for hours after you fall asleep.
Calcium Caseinate possesses a fairly bland taste. The mouth texture is fairly smooth but with all casein type proteins, they do possess a somewhat chalky mouth feel. Casein typeproteins in general also have a much thicker consistancy than a whey might have, so mixing quantites should be less. It is also easily mixed in a shaker or blender.
True Protein’s Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration is derived from whey protein concentrate, but ultimately from sweet dairy whey. Isolates, Cold-Filtration, Microfiltration and Ion-Exchange, are protein powders that are the next steps to further process whey protein concentrate. The Cold-Filtration process is a procedure of separating the proteins through the use of micro filtering the mass all while using a cold or “chilled” process (environment). These filters allow the protein to be removed from the unwanted fat, lactose and the like. Cold-Filtration Isolate is virtually fat free and lactose (sugar) free.
So what is the difference between Cold-Filtration and Microfiltration? They both use the same extraction process of filtering, but the Cold-Filtration is just that, the liquid mass is chilled and then filtered. As well the mass is then sprayed dried in a non heat environment to preserve the undenatured proteins.
Using the Cold-Filtration method, the overall protein is said to only be 0-3% denatured, in comparison to other proteins that can be denatured up to 15%. Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration is very high in bioactive whey protein fractions, including immunoglobulin, lactoferrin and glycomacropeptides.
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration is a great whey protein for users who experience bloating and other problems associated with whey protein concentrate. As well, users who want a higher protein percentage per product, an Isolate is a great choice.
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration possesses an extremely clean taste. This product alone is opaque in nature (almost clear) and does not have any distinct flavor. Great for the individual that dislikes the taste of “protein powders.
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2006/12/30, 01:29 PM
Price wise you ask!
For 5 pound:
Sub-Total: $41.35 it's $8.27 per pound
Discount: - $0.00
Shipping: $7.19
Tax: $3.76
Grand Total: $52.30
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2006/12/30, 02:09 PM
Thats what I pay for 2lbs! Always getting ripped off up here!
Oh, and I have to go and get it!
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A little discipline at the table and at the gym might help reduce that belly!
Ivan
Montreal Canada (City of Festivals)
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2006/12/30, 02:11 PM
Yeah, I am a big fan of Micellar for supplemental purposes.
Mix that with some whey isolate, and you are on your way toward a great recovery. If you can afford it, sipping throughout the day is ideal. Milk also works wonders.
Some folks worry about the 'sugars' in milk. They are predominately Lactose and Sucrose(some may use some HFCS).
Looking at the GI of these, Lactose has a GI of around 43-50, and Sucrose 50-60.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2006/12/30, 02:54 PM
Yeah for only $4.20 more I might as well just go 50% Micellar and scratch the Calcium Caseinate.
50% Great Casein and 50% Great Whey Isolate:big_smile:
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2006/12/30, 06:10 PM
Pretty discouraging to hear this company is ripping you off I think I might look elsewhere, I can't afford to get ripped off let alone more so afford to get pissed off about it and I know I will if I get burned!
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Quoting from carivan:
Thats what I pay for 2lbs! Always getting ripped off up here!
Oh, and I have to go and get it!
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2006/12/30, 06:48 PM
No, no, no, the company is not ripping people off. Its just the way things are here in Canada, more expensive!
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A little discipline at the table and at the gym might help reduce that belly!
Ivan
Montreal Canada (City of Festivals)
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2006/12/30, 06:55 PM
Oh, dances on happy feet knowing it ok to go with True's Protien :big_smile:
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2007/01/01, 01:28 PM
Great post SF, it’s coming in the right time as I’m looking for good proteins.
I looked at True Proteins but I was not sure about the proportions.
How many of you order from there? So is 50% Micellar Casein and 50% Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration is a decent mix? Do you add flavours, sweeteners, etc ?
BB1fit it was Vince that was talking about sipping the drink `Half and Half` throughout the day. He also said that proteins shakes should not be mixed in a blender.
(I gotta read his book again)
Carvian, I live in Canada and the price was $50 for 5lb, I just emailed them if if`s in Canadian $. But you`re right prices here are more expensive.
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2007/01/01, 01:46 PM
Trueprotein.com is a great and legitimate outlet to get your protein from. Flavors have vastly improved.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2007/01/01, 10:52 PM
I just ordered and they didn't charge shipping because it seems to not be working all weekend the shipping options that is.
Custom Mix + FORMULA
Calcium Caseinate 25%
Micellar Casein 25%
Whey Protein Concentrate 25%
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration 25%
5 Pounds
Sub-Total: $37.70
Tax: $2.92
Shipping: $0.00
Grand Total: $40.62
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2007/01/02, 12:38 PM
has anyone ordered creatine form them, it seems cheap
$11 / lb or should i be adding something to it ?
do you guys still spkie your PWO, I was thinking of getting malot / dexto 1lb (50/50) mix. or should I get 1 lb each ?
thnx
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2007/01/03, 12:33 PM
SF,
what change your mind to go with this mix instead of the 50% Great Casein and 50% Great Whey Isolate ?
I`m gonna order my batch soon
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2007/01/03, 01:34 PM
Price
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2007/01/03, 01:48 PM
Yep, SF hit the nail on the head.
For instance, if you let the supplement companies think for you, they would have you using hydrolosates post workout. There just aren't big differences between a hydrolosate and an isolate that is worthy of the cost.
Hydrolosates are simply a fancy term for pre digested. This is nothing new, has been around for years and years. If it gets into the system a few seconds earlier, is this going to make an iota worth of difference?
There is a big difference in whey and casein, but any whey does the same thing, and any casein does the same thing. Casein actually clots in the gut upon digesting, which insures a more steady response of amino acids into the bloodstream.
If any of this 'fast recovery' stuff makes any difference(a few seconds time), no one really knows. There are no long term studies, everything is acute, and suggests nothing that over the long haul a few seconds makes any difference. Go cheaper, you will get the same thing and have a 'fatter' wallet for it.
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Quoting from SFGiantsMVP:
Price
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2007/01/03, 01:52 PM
I should note to the above post that any whey or any casein is the same, 'unless it is hydrolyzed'. Then that changes it to the super fast and more expensive.
To get a bit technical here, there isn't much protein left when hydrolyzed(another discussion that I will leave for now), its basically amino acids and some small peptides. Really the only way they still can call it protein is because it contains the same amino acids. hydrolysation of proteins means the breaking of peptide bonds.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2007/01/03, 04:32 PM
I`m looking for using the same mix for PWO and before bed time (/ w milk). Since, there`s no really difference between different proteins, then I assume I`m ok
Thnx guys
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2007/01/03, 04:41 PM
Thats the whole purpose of this thread a Supplemnet that can bee used at all times that will get you a fast realse but also a slow and slower is way better unless it's a PWO so as BB1 has stated before in other threads, Why not get the best of both worlds fast and slow in your PWO and mix it in MILK!
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Quoting from bicep:
I`m looking for using the same mix for PWO and before bed time (/ w milk). Since, there`s no really difference between different proteins, then I assume I`m ok
Thnx guys
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2007/01/03, 04:45 PM
I just got a phone call from True's and had to pay the shipping but it was at 2 buck cheaper then standard rate.
I'm going to stick with True's and the mix I ordered so for I think they are totaly professional and your not going to find protien at this quality in the brand names.
With true's there is no fillers like Gum this and that it's ALL PROTIEN!
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2007/01/04, 01:30 PM
Thnx a lot for all that info
I`ll use the same mix as yours.
I have more question did you a sweetner and if you did which one ? I was thinking about stavia, I~ve heard it`s pretty good.
thnx
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2007/01/04, 01:46 PM
None, I add 1 packet of aspartame to each shake.
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2007/01/04, 02:39 PM
This actually works well. My wife uses this for her coffee.
Aside from that, if you order their new flavoring packets, you will be pleasantly surprised. Very tasty. A bit pricy, but if you can afford it...
With your order they will more than likely send you some samples of them.
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Quoting from SFGiantsMVP:
None, I add 1 packet of aspartame to each shake.
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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2007/01/04, 03:57 PM
Cool, Yeah I went with the Free Vanilla because I flavor my own with Berries and such but next time and from now on I'll go the extra for the better taste flavor.
I just wasn't sure about the difference in the flavors but now with that said I'll go with the tastiest.
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2007/01/05, 03:41 PM
I~m thinking about vanilla as it can be easily mixed with anything or I~ll get 1lb of a different flavour to try
One more question that comes to my mind is, how can you tell True Protein sells higher quality protein then the brand names ?
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2007/01/05, 04:14 PM
Read the ingredients and compare grams of Protien per serving size like like 25 grams of protien per serving size of 30 grams.
The Casien is just that then go read other brands and see what they add too it!
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2007/01/06, 09:18 AM
I guess it`s the protiens used in brand names.
Comparing to Optimum 100% Whey proteins per gram were close. Chorestelor was actually a lot higher in OP100%.
but shipping cost is high, 3 times as much as the place I order.
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2007/01/08, 09:18 PM
OK it just arrived and I just had a scoop in Milk and I have to say.
I Love it!
It's a great mix thick but not too thick and it taste good with the free vanilla flavor so with the new flavor they offer at a charge will make it taste GREAT!
I was thinking <---Yup Me Thinking) of going a tad less Whey and a bit more Casein but since I mix it in milk it's already more Casein then Whey so I'll stick with this mix and if I'm hurting on cash at the time I'll just go Calcium Caseinate 50% Whey Protein Concentrate 25% Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration 25%.
Going to have to stick with the Whey mix because too much Concentrated Whey makes me feel like crap.
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2007/01/09, 11:34 AM
Holy Crap my Oats and Blueberries shake was as thick as a Ice Cream Shake got to love that!
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2007/01/09, 12:20 PM
Thnx for the update and all the info.
I can`t wait to order mine (this weekend), I`ll try the same mix.
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2007/02/05, 10:33 PM
Just received a new 5 pound order this time we went 60%Calcium Caseinate and 40% Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration with the New Flavors French Vanilla and I can tell the difference just dipping my finger in the bag to get a taste that this New Flavor stuff is Great.
I'm like a kid today dipping my finger in my powder every now and then to get a taste LOL.
I'm all ready over 2500 calories today and at 273 grams of Protien which is 6 grams under my 1.5 x body weight but I'm going to go overboard tonight with a night cap of this new stuff tonight LOL.
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/06, 02:06 PM
Ok, I'm sticking with the above mixture it's exactly what I have been wanting.
It is much thicker but it mixes way better.
Taste: 10 out of 10
Mixability 10 out of 10
Texture: 8.5 out of 10 ( Only because Casien has a chalky texture in the mouth )
Love it in Skim Milk and is a great all around shake, super thick with Oats and berries, filling for a PWO and a great night cap.
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/06, 05:03 PM
Ok taste is about an 8 too I got carried away LOL!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/07, 12:35 PM
good to know ... I hadn`t have a chance to get mine as I wanna get my eating habits in order (there`s always someting like bdays, weddings, etc.)
Also,I ordered Iron Woody bands...
So, I should be getting my proteins in the next two weeks.
but keep us posted ....
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2007/02/07, 02:37 PM
Tastes best in Milk and Honey.
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/08, 01:37 AM
Ok I'll give this last mix a 10 in taste if use as 1 scoop per 1 cup of Milk but if you add more then 1 scoop it can be a 8.5 because the casein will make it chalkier.
Again I'll stick with this mix!
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/08, 04:16 PM
Has anyone tried the BSL flavors, are they worth it? Also what would be a good mix for a prebed or anytime (possible MRP) custom mix. I was thinking of the following (just made it up did not really know what to put in it)
20% Whey Iso Cold Filtration
30% Micellar Casein
35% Calcium Caseinate
15% Milk Protein Iso
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2007/02/08, 04:55 PM
I use my last mix as prebed at times.
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Quoting from jslee21:
Has anyone tried the BSL flavors, are they worth it? Also what would be a good mix for a prebed or anytime (possible MRP) custom mix. I was thinking of the following (just made it up did not really know what to put in it)
20% Whey Iso Cold Filtration
30% Micellar Casein
35% Calcium Caseinate
15% Milk Protein Iso
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Knock-Um Down & Keep-Um Down!
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2007/02/08, 08:28 PM
The BSL flavors are good.
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Quoting from jslee21:
Has anyone tried the BSL flavors, are they worth it? Also what would be a good mix for a prebed or anytime (possible MRP) custom mix. I was thinking of the following (just made it up did not really know what to put in it)
20% Whey Iso Cold Filtration
30% Micellar Casein
35% Calcium Caseinate
15% Milk Protein Iso
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"If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."
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