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2003/10/10, 09:33 AM
This is what the suggested warm-up routine is for the workouts on this website:
Warming up & Stretching - It is imperative that you warm up your muscles properly prior to engaging in any form of exercise. An overall body warmup may include 5 minutes on the treadmill, or a short bike-ride. The idea is to raise your heart rate and encourage blood flow through your muscles. After a general body warmup is complete, your muscles must be properly stretched. Stretching before the first set of every exercise should take no less than three minutes. Afterwards, you must stretch between each and every set in order to open up the muscle fibers and allow the blood to flow in. Improper stretching may result in a personal injury.
My thoughts and what the research says:
Static stretching before exercise increases the distance between actin and myosin filaments. Less contact results in less force production. Here is some research from Dr. Jeff McBride while he was at the University of Wisconsin- La Crosse from 1994-1997:
Stretching (three minutes static) reduces peak force production up to 5%,
reduces RFD up to 8%, and increases EMG Latencies by up to 16%. In contrast,
dynamic warm-up exercises for 10 minutes has no significant effect on peak
force production but increases RFD by 8% while decreasing EMG Latencies by 2%.
Stretching (passive held) may interrupt the efferent-afferent loop
leading to athletic injury during subsequent performance.
Stretching (passive held) may induce unfolding of tandem -immunoglobular
domains and thereby reduce force production ability.
Stretching (passive held) may decrease motorneuron excitation,
attenuating the stretch reflex for up to 30 minutes following application
Bottom line: Passive, static stretching will reduce your ability to produce force, decrease your rate of force development, and decrease the amount of recruitment. A dynamic warm-up has no significant effect on peak force production, will increase your rate of force development and will increase recruitment, which are all very good things.
One last thought: If you train for specificity, why not warm-up for specificity too.
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2003/10/10, 05:58 PM
I agree with you, gator, there is a lot of 'old school' info on this site. It takes a lot of time to keep current with all the research out there and update the site (I am guessing) but you could bring it to the admin's attention that they are giving out old outdated info.
The other thing to consider is that the force-contraction and all isn't going to make that big of a difference to newbies.
Trainers, Gyms and aerobic instructors are headed towards eliminating the pre-workout stretch and switching to dynamic warm-ups. It will all workout eventually (and then the research will change again).
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
"You do or you do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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2003/10/10, 06:17 PM
The other thing to consider is that the force-contraction and all isn't going to make that big of a difference to newbies.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Why not teach them the correct way from the beginning?
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2003/10/10, 11:26 PM
Great topic, there is much debate about this amongst the industry & for one very good reason--LIABILITY. It is this very inhibition of force output along with a immflamatory response that produces the injury prevention pro stretching advocates have been swearing by for years. When we (as an industry) go against this & reccomend dynamic warm ups we fall into this liability "trap". Don't get me wrong I am all for this change as it needs to happen, however as long as the people behind the fitness industry say "stretching protects against injury" We as proffesionals put ourselves at risk by saying otherwise. Thus is our dilemna.
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\\\\\"Education is the progressive discovery of our own ignorance\\\\"
Patrick L.
ISSA-CFT
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2003/10/10, 11:37 PM
Again, another prime example of "conventional wisdom". When something like this takes hold, it is very hard to dispel.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/10/11, 09:38 AM
We need to make the change. Don't hide behide liability claims when there is research to support a dynamic warm-up as a better means of preparing to exercise or perform.
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2003/10/13, 12:55 PM
Ok, I got the business on stretching but what is a dynamic warmup? Does that refer to aerobic warm-up? I would love to see an FAQ and glossary section for this sight. I can't be the only one who gets confused with terminology here. I work at fitness as an avocation and in my home. A gym and trainer is both a financial and temporal luxery that I don't have.
Since I am on a rant, this seems a great topic to mention this. The FT programs I follow rarely seem to have anything in common with the routines that people post in the training logs and in the message boards. Most of the time, pepple are posting exercises the aren't explained in the FT exercises eg. skullcrushers, cable crunches etc. I have looked up many of them but there aren't enough hours in the day..
I don't wish to appear overly hyper or discontented here but I would love to understand what is going on more often. You guys keep up these kind of discussions because we all learn from them. Just remember there are many here who are reduced to lip diddling at times with the jargon.
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An experienced traveler doesn\'t need a tour guide.
Charlie
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2003/10/13, 01:46 PM
Charlie,
I live in Gainesville, FL. If you live near by, and are able to stop in, I am more than willing to take you through a clinic on what is discussed on this board (free). I love to advocate strength and conditioning and that offer goes for everyone on this board.
Respectfully,
Matt DeLancey CSCS
Strength and Conditioning Coordinator
University of Florida
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2003/10/13, 03:12 PM
Charlie, as usual you make me chuckle.
Anytime you need to know a term, just shoot me an email.
Dynamic warmups are after you have done a general warm-up (cardiovascular movement that gets your heart rate up and brings blood to the muscles and surrounding joint structures, getting the body ready for your workout).
A dynamic warmup usually involves movements involving the muscles you are going to focus on in that workout , in motions that are similar to the ones you will do under load.
A pre-set of higher reps with light weights for an exercise sort of fills this definition, but more specifically doing some moving stretches and maybe calisthenics involving the muscles groups to be worked.
For example, I am going to work legs. I warm up 10-15 minutes on the elliptical (the warm-ups get longer as this old gal gets older), and then I do a series of bodyweight only squats and lunges, movements that specifically warm-up my legs for heavy squats, smith lunges, perhaps deadlifts.
Does that make more sense?
The reason you can't find some of the terms people use here are because many have been 'updated' to bring them out of the 'dungeon 'days of wieght lifting to the new, more politically correct and less scary to women (though my female clients much prefer skull-crushers to lying french presses or lying triceps extensions, we wanna crush some heads, mna!).
So, there are also many different things that people sort of make up to call exercises and what one person means by a name may conjur up something completely different to another person. But, you can see how it would get rather long-winded (like me) if we always used the really descriptive versions of things , prone wide grip barbell flat bench presses, versus bench press. You know.
AHHH, ANother great ramble...
Gator, I don't mean that we will deliberatly teach people the wrong things, just that for many people, getting to the gym is the biggest part of the battle, and if they have created or learned a routine that includes pre-stretching and overloading them with every change that comes down the line is going to confuse and persay endanger their level of comfort, let them pre-stretch. I would ove to spend all day, every day, teaching people the right way to do things, but there again, the right way to do things has changed at least twice since I became a trainer, and I can't count how many times it has changed since I started lifting.
You are very dedicated, and I admire that. I also respect your CSCS, a goal of mine in the future, that or Physical Therapist.
I also have watched soooo many people go right back to their old form and old habits the minute I walk away from them it isn't even funny.
If they want to pre-stretch, they will, whether I tell them how to do it right, or you tell them how to do it right, or the president runs a PSa about it, people are creatures of habit (how do you suppose we have an epidemic of obesity, yet probably the most health clubs and diet centers per capita in the world??).
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Challenge + Consistency = Results
"You do or you do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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2003/10/13, 04:11 PM
Matt, your offer is very kind and I may see you sometime. My wife and I are soon retiring to a boat and plan on traveling most of the inland US and Carribean waters. I think Florida falls in there . I've read some of your posts about jumpstretch and band training and that is what we will go to when the boat eliminates the weight room in our house. Thanks man.
Amy I crack myself up too. Whooda thunk it I was already doing the dynamic warm ups though its great knowing thats what I was doing. As usual, the answers are swift and comprehensible. For that I thank you.
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2003/10/13, 05:35 PM
I agree with you in part. It is good to exercise regardless of how you are doing it (unless you are just down right doing something dangerous). My point is this; I work with athletes and they will do it the right way. If you personally train someone, explain it to them and make them do it. That is why they are paying you. If it is someone who doesn't want help or they are afraid of change, then yes, I agree, let them pre-stretch. But, at the very least let them know that in no way does stretching prevent injury. Give them the facts. Let them sort it out for themselves. I appreciate your comments. Charlie, drop me a line when you get through Florida. I'll show you a million things to do with the bands.
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2003/10/17, 10:21 AM
I saw a study that came out of the Sports Institute of Innsbruck, Austria a few years ago. The study had 2 groups. Group 1 warm-up, lifted, and stretched after lifting. Group 2 warm-up, lifted, and DID NOT stretch after lifting. Group 1 was 19% stronger after 8 weeks of training. The participants were matched on various characteristics and were on the same training plan. They were all beginners.
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2003/12/16, 06:52 AM
The Florida Volleyball team has one 103 straight games and we use the dynamic warm-up prior to matches and practice and training. We stretch after.
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2004/03/29, 11:22 PM
Stretching before a workout is a strength and power athlete's worst enemy. Research is now indicating that stretching before does not prevent or increase muscle injury. Most muscle injuries occur in the natural range of motion so where would the benefit of stretching come in anyway? Stretching may also increase joint laxity and that may increase the risk of a joint injury. Stretching after a workout is a great recovery method. I have seen a study from Austria on this topic. There were two groups and participants were matched on various characteristics. I will continue in the next post so I don't become NULL!
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2004/03/29, 11:24 PM
Same 8 week training plan. Same warm-up. The difference? 1 group stretch after the other did not. The result? The group that did stretch after showed a 19% higher increase in strength gains than the group that did not. So, stretching, not a great warm-up but a wonderful cool down method!
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2004/03/29, 11:27 PM
I reposted this one because it is a hot topic in the field and lots of people miss the eight ball on this one. I will post a true dynamic warm-up tomorrow when I get to work. I am off to BED!!!
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2004/05/31, 10:40 AM
bump
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2004/07/01, 07:12 PM
So i'f i'm working out my legs, then the same method would apply???? Stretch after leg workouts..But how about warming up before any kind of workout?? Should i just do a 5 min jog to get my heart rate up?
I know this is an old post but i'd really appreciate the feed back.
thanks.
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2004/10/08, 07:48 PM
Here is a dynamic warm-up you can do prior to a leg day:
Set-up a distance of 15-20 yards. A trip is equal to that distance. If you don't know what something is then send me an email.
Forward Skip x 2 trips
Backward skips x 2 trips
Lateral Skips x 2
Lateral Shuffle x 2
Carioca x 2
Walking side squats 5/ leg x 1 trip
Heel ups x 1 trip
High knees x 1 trip
“A” skip x 1 trip
Backwards “A” skip x 1 trip
Toy Soldiers/Knee Tucks/Ankle Pulls x 5/skill/leg
Lunge; elbow to instep x 3/leg
Skaters x 3/leg
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2004/10/21, 10:09 AM
this is so similar to plyometric traning i did, exercise wise...heh...I am so glad that this forum is current...I read in a couple of magazines recently what you guys discussed in here previously...Has been a good review..
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2004/10/27, 05:06 PM
This is similar to the warm-up I use with the volleyball team.
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2004/12/01, 09:26 AM
my bad... its right here! ;)
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2004/12/01, 05:09 PM
lol...yea...still here
i do only dynamic before exercises....or soemtimes none at all before certain exercises...and instead do it afterwards...when i am done with the exercises....or after my power sets...don't know if that's good...great post to revisit..
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2004/12/03, 09:26 PM
Occasionally I stretch in between reps. But never the same muscle group I am working. For example, on my max effort bench press day, I am taking longer rests, so in between, I stretch my hamstrings and calves, and on squat day, I stretch my shoulders, etc. After the workout I stretch the muscle I was working. For the sake of giving credit where credit is do, before reading this post, I had no idea the effect stretching had on strength, both before and after.
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Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
steve
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2004/12/07, 02:40 PM
Correction
"Occasionaly I stretch in between sets." Stretching in between reps might make things kinda difficult
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2004/12/07, 05:54 PM
Why do you stretch between sets? I think there is plenty of research out there to indicate that static stretching should be done after training.
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2006/01/16, 10:46 AM
bump: this is a reply to PWO stretch
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2006/01/25, 01:50 PM
Hey gatormade can u help me and finding stretch methods. I can't seem to find anything online or on ft. Help
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Quoting from gatormade:
bump: this is a reply to PWO stretch
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2006/01/26, 01:22 PM
you need to fill out your profile before anyone on here will help you.
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2006/02/10, 12:06 AM
Hey guys I was just wondering what your favorite online sources for stretching methods are? I was looking for some creative ways at different stretching methods for different muscles....I found simplified versions....but what are some good resources with illustrations of different stretches? for passive/static, dynamic, PNF, etc...
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2006/02/10, 12:20 PM
Sherdog.net
Martial artists may not always know strength training, but they do take the time to break down stretching into a science.
I also own all of Pavel's books, and a few others.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/02/12, 08:12 AM
Here's the best site that I found on stretching
http://www.trickstutorials.com/index.php?page=content/flx3
Though the guy is really against ballistic stretching...not specifically sure why as everything has its place...but have to take the best out of everything and this site has great stretches...
Sherdog.com is also a great site...they got very smart people on that site....as long as u don't wander through their uncensored no holds bar forum...LOL...
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2006/05/24, 12:55 AM
ok... im really confused now....
I am a complete newbie and have no workout habbits to break.
so do i stretch or not? if so, when? doesn't stretching increase range of motion? since im just starting i figure ill learn it right.
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2006/05/24, 04:05 AM
you can do dynamic stretches before exercise and...static stretches after your workouts..
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2006/08/25, 01:58 PM
bump....from Mutt.
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2006/12/12, 02:16 PM
bump
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