Group: General Diet & Nutrition

Created: 2011/12/31, Members: 399, Messages: 16719

With such a topic so broad we truly try to cover the basics from all angles in this group. Nothing too big or too small. Nutrition is as significant if not more as exercise is to reaching your goals so learn all you can.

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A couple of words on low bodyfat

bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2006/08/02, 07:43 PM
This is from Lyle McDonald who I think is the foremost authority on diet there is. I am posting this as I am in complete agreement with him. The news media trying to sell supplements and workout stuff to attain very low bodyfats...i.e....six pack as sexy, have created a monster. This in fact can be very unhealthy. Both men and women should read this....

Although I've mentioned this several times, I really want to drive the point home: don't equate lower bodyfat with better. Once bodyfat gets too low, in both men and women, hormone levels are disrupted. The normal menstrual cycle in women may stop (this is called ammenorrhea), indicating a problem with estrogen production. This tends to cause bone loss which is a very serious problem. In men not using drugs to maintain their hormone levels, testosterone can approach near-castrate levels as they reach the lower limits of bodyfat. Complaints of zero sex drive (and not being able to get it up even if the drive were there) are common among natural bodybuilders who get extremely lean.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Thyroid, growth hormone, IGF-1, metabolic rate, and the immune system are all severely depressed under situations of extremely low bodyfat (folks who are naturally lean are exceptions to this, I'm talking about folks dieting to that level). Cortisol, which is one of the big causes of muscle loss goes through the roof at extremely low bodyfat levels. It's all part of your body's normal adaptation to starvation (remember from an earlier chapter: dieting is just like starvation, just slower) to try and keep you alive.

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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2006/08/02, 07:46 PM
A bit more....

To your body, all of this makes sense of course. A bodyfat of 5% in a man is likely occurring because there is no food. Your body can't tell the difference between you starving it because you're a crazy bodybuilder or you starving because there's no food available; it reacts the same way. If there is no food, the last thing your body wants is for you to get your mate pregnant. Either there isn't enough food to keep it alive or you'll be dead before it's born, and unable to fulfill your fatherly duties (watching TV and drinking beer). So testosterone crashes to make it impossible in the first place. If you're starving, chances are so is your mate so that's a double whammy.

A woman with 12% or lower bodyfat wouldn't be able to bring a baby to term safely in the first place, so the body prevents it by shutting down the menstrual cycle. I should note that the reasons for the shutdown are actually more complex and some dieting women will lose their period at higher bodyfat percentages. It's actually more an issue of energy balance (intake minus output) than bodyfat per se, but that's beyond the scope of what I want to talk about here.

Some women look upon the loss of their period as a benefit, just one less monthly messy (sorry) hassle. But the bone loss and estrogen issue is not a joke, and can (will) cause problems down the road. Studies of female gymnasts and ballerinas are finding low bone densities similar to post-menopausal women. Certainly not the picture of a healthy athlete. And if the bone doesn't develop during puberty, it may never develop at all.

The same dynamics hold for performance athletes. While it's 'logical' to think that leaner is better (less weight to move around) at least for some sports, the extreme amounts of caloric restriction and training needed to get that lean can cause muscle loss and crater performance. Even if losing a few pounds of fat might make a cyclist climb better, if the effort needed to do it hampers training or causes hormones to crater, it may still not be worth it.

For those truly obsessed with body image, bodyfat percentages of 8-10% for men and 13-15% for women should be safely sustainable year round although it will require nearly fanatical devotion to daily diet and training (or having picked the right parents to start with). Yeah, you can cheat from time to time (it's actually a good idea for a lot of reasons) but for the most part you'll be stuck paying attention to your meals and training to an extreme degree. If you're not genetically blessed to be that lean, be prepared to be a little hungry all the time. And to be a total pain in the ass when you go out with friends; the key is to schedule your cheat/free meals around social events so you don't have to be that guy who goes out and won't eat anything (or worse yet, you take your cooler of chicken breast and broccoli with you). After seeing what a hassle it is to get and stay superlean year round, many people decide that it simply isn't worth the effort. Of course, this is always a personal choice.


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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
evol_js
evol_js
Posts: 111
Joined: 2006/03/19
United States
2006/08/02, 07:59 PM
Well that's pretty discouraging. I don't see it's true though. With six pack'd men all over the place on television and magazines; are these all the select few who were genetically gifted?
evol_js
evol_js
Posts: 111
Joined: 2006/03/19
United States
2006/08/02, 08:04 PM
how it's true** sorry.
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2006/08/02, 11:25 PM
Trust me, it is true! You can have a 6 pack at 10% now, and be fine. But this is talking about very low bodyfats, competition levels. I can attest to the test aspect and metabolic slowdown, I have been at 5% and less a few times, and I can tell you, I felt like crap and couldn't wait till the contest was over to start eating again. You may look healthy up there on stage, but trust me, many of us who compete at the very least end up with colds, flu, etc. as our immune systems are very depressed. The bodyuilders(pros you see) are doing exogenous test, you must understand that , so they can stay at those low bodyfats.

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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
jbennett
jbennett
Posts: 1,558
Joined: 2001/02/28
United States
2006/08/03, 01:12 PM
Alright, bb1. You talked me into it. I'm eating Krispy Kremes for breakfast and Hooters wings for dinner every day!

All kidding aside, that is an awesome article. I also completely understand and support it. Is there a specific website where I can get more info about Lyle McDonald's research or should I just search?

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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
SFGiantsMVP
SFGiantsMVP
Posts: 1,533
Joined: 2005/12/04
United States
2006/08/17, 04:43 AM
Well I'm glad my goal is set to a 14 to 15 %, I probably won't show a 6 pack that high but it's sure beats the 26% I started at a year ago and has to be alot better then this 18% I'm at now!
I just don't wana go through life with a dunlop, you know belly done lopped over your belt syndrom. Oh and more so I don't wana live life looking like a pregnant man lol.

By the way is there 2 kinds of fat because I see some guys with the big bludging bellies and the guy's like I was pudgy with more a flabby spare tire look. Well I guess fat is just fat and it depends if you carry it inside more and others like I outside the stomach. Gezz I don't know but I don't want either but I also see no need to go to low I'm not a bodybuilder and 14 to 15% seems to be a gaol to shoot for and hopefully maintainable for years to come!
asimmer
asimmer
Posts: 8,201
Joined: 2003/01/07
United States
2006/08/17, 07:58 AM
The type of fat carried in the abdominal cavity - you see it with older guys, where they have a hard abdomen but it is distended, creates more health risks that subcutaneous fat that coats your entire body or gives you a little all-over pudge. Interabdominal fat is marbled in and around your organs and increases the risk of diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

You can kind of tell buy grabbing or pinching your belly fat whether it is mostly subcutaneous or if it is interabdominal.

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You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there.
jbennett
jbennett
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Joined: 2001/02/28
United States
2006/08/17, 08:26 AM
The hard belly fat, if I remember correctly, is called visceral fat. It can even cause partial or whole organ failure due to the pressure of fat surrounding it.

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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2006/08/19, 11:07 AM
Visceral fat accumulates around the organs and in the abdomen. Probably the most dangerous type of fat.

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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
firemansam
firemansam
Posts: 147
Joined: 2004/08/20
Australia
2006/09/06, 11:32 AM
How much does body fat percentage fluctuate? For instance say if you get down to 10% will you hover around there or will it go up quite easily. Im quite lean anyway but havent had my body fat percentage done since i was in school when i think it was about 14% cursed beer may have upped it a little
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2006/09/06, 11:46 AM
Genetics, etc. play a roll here, but throwing that out, this is the bottom line. If you keep calories at maintenance on a regular basis, feed the muscle with solid protein, make the muscle work on a regular basis so it cannot atrophy, your bf %'s should stay right where it is. This is in fact how you stay at a level once you are happy where you are.

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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!